planning permission - exempted items

C

ceciliak

Guest
Hi,

We're building on top of an existing kitchen (part of original house) to extend a bedroom. A number of neighbours have already put in the same extension with no planning permission. One of them recently applied for planning permission for an attic conversion & asked their architect if they would apply for retention permission for the bedroom extension & their architect said no need as it was exempt.

I’ve since looked into exempt items in more detail & although we comply with size & height there is a requirement that above ground floor extensions are min 2 meters from boundary wall & all our houses are only 1 meter from boundary wall.

Does anyone know if there is any regulation which exempts the 2mter requirement if existing 1st story is only 1 meter from boundary? I’ve searched various sites and can find nothing which exempts it but yet our neighbours are 100% happy that the extensions are exempt. I’m panicking as work has already started on ours. Thanks for any advice.
 
ceciliak said:
Does anyone know if there is any regulation which exempts the 2mter requirement if existing 1st story is only 1 meter from boundary?
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Hi ceciliak

Quite bluntly no! It does not matter how far the existing first floor/external walls are from the boundary. To build a first floor extension as an exempt development, 2.0 metres is the minimum distance the external walls must be from any boundary.

Any neighbour who has already done this type of extension, without planning permission, will probably find they have a problem when they come to sell their houses.
 
Hi Docarch,
Many thanks for the reply. Apart from any issue with selling the house in the future I’m more concerned about breaching planning laws & what sort of trouble that might land us in. Would you know anything about what the local council could realistically do in a situation like this? One of the extensions is 11 years old so I think they are outside the 7 year period but my other neighbour & myself seem to be in trouble with this. Could we be forced to remove the extensions?
 
If you are already building - I will not say either way whether or not you should stop - you shouldn't be building in the first place! - I would first to get a (proper) architect or other professional to look at what you are doing and to confrom whether or not what you are doing does in fact require planning permission.

The next step possibly would be for you to apply for retention permission. Retention permission is there for people who have made a genuine mistake (as it sounds like you have based on what others have done).

The consequences are that if someboday was to make a complaint about what you are doing, the Council would investigate and if they found that the extension needed planning permission/was built without planning permission, they may take enforcement proceedings against you. If enfocement proceedings were taken by the Council, and you then subsequently got retention permission, this does not mean that the enforcement proceedings would necessarily stop.

With regard to the 7 year rule - if the extension is there more than 7 years then the Council cannot take enforcemnet proceedings but that does not 'legalise' the extension. If you tried to sell the house, you would probably find there would be a problem with the tiltle (due to the unauthorised development) and this can only be regularised by applying for retention permission.
 
+1 what Docarch has posted and I also note he following -

There are several inconsistencies in the exempted development schedule.

A clever architect could work out a way for your development to be compliant, but I imagine he'd want to be paid for it.

A separate way to address this is to discuss it with your local planning officer, something you should have done long ago.

A month and €80 will get you a definitive in the form of a Section 5 Declaration.

Unless the planner is very clever it may result in a "no".


ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matter at hand.
 
Tease! :D I have to say I have not come across an instance of how it could be considered exempt?
 
onq said:
There are several inconsistencies in the exempted development schedule.

A clever architect could work out a way for your development to be compliant, but I imagine he'd want to be paid for it.
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No, there is no way round that particular condition - i.e. 2 metres from boundary
 
There is.


ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matter at hand.
 
onq said:
There is.
Click to expand...

I personally do not think so (without warping the the exempted development regulations and/or coating paperwork you might submit to planners with LSD! :p).

I think I now where you might be going to with this but I think any local authority or an bord pleanala (by referral) could not allow!

Tell us your thesis....go on!
 
I don't think its appropriate to give away advice at the level people should pay for, so I'll bow out of this discussion :)


ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matter at hand.
 
nutty nut said:
No, there is no way round that particular condition - i.e. 2 metres from boundary
Click to expand...

onq said:
There is.


ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matter at hand.
Click to expand...
I will rephrase then so.

No, there is no legal way round that particular condition - i.e. 2 metres from boundary
 
nutty nut

I cannot let that pass.

I don't suggest that people to carry out illegal works.
My long record of posts on AAM [3,856 to date] speaks for itself.

Accordingly, please don't infer, assume or allege illegality because the resolution is not apparent to you.
Spend more time contemplating the limits of the exempted development schedule and the sequencing of events based on it.


ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matter at hand.
 
You can build a double height ground floor extension (the act refers to an above ground extension).
Then put in a 2nd floor.
The timing of this may make it fall outside of the statute - exemptions tend to be interpreted strictly, and if the construction is done within a single project, it could be considered an above ground extension.
 
Superman said:
You can build a double height ground floor extension (the act refers to an above ground extension).
Then put in a 2nd floor.
The timing of this may make it fall outside of the statute - exemptions tend to be interpreted strictly, and if the construction is done within a single project, it could be considered an above ground extension.
Click to expand...

Yes indeed, you could build a double height extension, but the minute you put in the additional floor, my opinion would be then that you have breached exempted development by extending the first floor.
 
Docarch said:
Yes indeed, you could build a double height extension, but the minute you put in the additional floor, my opinion would be then that you have breached exempted development by extending the first floor.
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I think it would depend on the timing. If it could be viewed as part of a "single transaction" (i.e. a single building project) I could see it being regarded as a 2 storey extension.
If it is done after the first part is complete with a clear break, then it is merely an internal alteration.
 
Hmmmmm..... I would suggest it's debatable - a very grey area!

I personally think if somebody went down that route, you'd be on pretty shaky ground. You've built a single storey extension as and exempt development (albeit double height) and lets say 1m from the boundary - box ticked : exempt - you then later add in a first floor within that structure. The addition of this first floor extends the floor area of the house and becomes 'an above ground', i.e. first floor, extension 1m from the boundary - can you tick the box as exempt? I would say no (even though you are making no external change)!
 
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nutty nut said:
I never said you did so Id appreciate it if you would withdraw your allegation that I did.
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Read it again - there is no allegation.

You followed up a post I made asserting that it could be done with a comment suggesting it could only be done illegally.

I pointed out - for anyone reading the exchange - that this was not the case - that's known as a clarification, not an allegation.
 
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