Personal Injury Claim - help

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LaurenGalway

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One of our children recently had a bad fall in a forest and ended up with a very nasty injury to her leg - required hospital visit, 35 stitches and will be scarred

He/she fell off a tree that had been cut down, no notice anywhere about the tree felling and it was right beside the trail.

scary experience to be fair.

A number of friends have since suggested that we should take a personal injury claim against the county council. Quite robustly actually.

So in your legal opinions
(1) do we have a case?
(2) should we pursue it?

appreciate any educated feedback..

thanks in advance
 
LaurenGalway said:
A number of friends have since suggested that we should take a personal injury claim
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Were you with your child when they climbed the fallen / cut down tree? Was there an adult present? Did you/another person tell him/her not to climb up on it? If not, was there not an onus on you to protect the child from such things happening ?

I understand it was scary - such things always are when a child is injured, but why is the fault of the council? Even if there was a sign up about "felled trees", would it have stopped the child from climbing ?
 
Worth speaking to a PI solicitor to get their opinion - you'll always wonder what might have been if you don't. My daughter fell over some years ago on walking boards on a rural council-run walkway and needed some stitches - we didn't pursue a case but in retrospect we should have.
 
How do you fall off a tree which is already cut down?. And you were in a Forest?
Seems your child had an accident , compo cases prevent today's children from enjoying & exploring nature as children should, climbing walking running exploring without worry. This time will go soon enough when they become adults.

Looking for monetary compensation won't heal the injury any faster, so please consider your actions & impacts they have on communities, and your child's environment.
 
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Sorry to hear your child was injured, always traumatic, not least for the parents. Was this on public or private land? Any notices posted about ownership or trespass? Forests by their nature are wild places with inherent dangers from fallen or falling objects, burrows, thorns, briars and other nasty undergrowth, wasps, bees, ants, horseflies, nettles, thistles and other potentially stinging and biting flora and fauna.

Why does someone need to be sued when a member of a rambling group gets injured by the stuff that's in there naturally? Did you deliver the "Things to watch out for and things not to do" lecture? Did they get the "Take nothing but photographs, leave nothing but footprints" speech? No?

People wonder why insurance is so expensive and difficult to get in this benighted little country of ours. I suspect people like your friends are part of the reason. No you don't have a case, but IMO maybe your unfortunate child has a case against you.
 
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deanpark said:
Worth speaking to a PI solicitor to get their opinion - you'll always wonder what might have been if you don't. My daughter
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deanpark said:
Worth speaking to a PI solicitor to get their opinion - you'll always wonder what might have been if you don't. My daughter fell over some years ago on walking boards on a rural council-run walkway and needed some stitches - we didn't pursue a case but in retrospect we should have.
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Appreciate the feedback - never sued for anything in our life but when I see that injury I really think there is a case to answer.
Looking for a legal view here
 
fidelcastro said:
How do you fall off a tree which is already cut down?. And you were in a Forest?
Seems your child had an accident , compo cases prevent today's children from enjoying & exploring nature as children should, climbing walking running exploring without worry. This time will go soon enough when they become adults.

Looking for monetary compensation won't heal the injury any faster, so please consider your actions & impacts they have on communities, and your child's environment.
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Fidel I’m not looking for a moral verdict thank you very much - I’m perfectly happy with my/our morals - I’m asking a legal question - is there a case or not from a legal perspective.
 
fidelcastro said:
Seems your child had an accident ,
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I think the unfortunate child had a stupid. There are far more stupids than accidents in Ireland as I told the lady from ESB Networks when we lost our electricity supply AGAIN one week-end earlier this year. Some eejit cut a tree down, taking supply lines with it. Having informed me we should be grateful the eejit wasn't injured in the accident, I said I wasn't the least bit interested in his state of health but wanted assurance he wouldn't be involved in another "stupid" close to our ESB supply network. Lead balloon time.
 
mathepac said:
Sorry to hear your child was injured, always traumatic, not least for the parents. Was this on public or private land? Any notices posted about ownership or trespass? Forests by their nature are wild places with inherent dangers from fallen or falling objects, burrows, thorns, briars and other nasty undergrowth, wasps, nees, ants, horseflies, nettles, thistles and other stinging and biting flora and fauna.

Why does someone need to be sued when a member of a rambling group gets injured by the stuff that's in there naturally? Did you deliver the "Things to watch out for and things not to do" lecture? Did they get the "Take nothing but photographs, leave nothing but footprints" speech? No?

People wonder why insurance is so expensive and difficult to get in this benighted little country of ours. I suspect people like your friends are part of the reason. No you don't have a case, but IMO maybe your unfortunate child has a case against you.
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it’s public, no notices.
There was tree cutting beside a trail.
before everyone gives the compo culture lecture again that’s not what we’re looking to do
I’m asking a legal question - is there a case or not?
don’t need the lectures or how to raise children
 
LaurenGalway said:
never sued for anything in our life but when I see that injury I really think there is a case to answer.
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Another layman viewpoint, I'm afraid.

Clearly there has been an injury. The extent of it is not the point. And the injury is to your child - not you. So any claim you might make would be on behalf of your child.

The child could potentially sue someone who had a duty of care in the circumstance. This could well be the Council - if the Council owns/runs the forest where the injury occurred. Was it a maintained walkway? You as parents also have a duty of care to the child, so the argument could be made that any action should be against yourselves, or against the Council and yourselves jointly. An action against your selves is unlikely (unless taken by another relation on the child's behalf - very unlikely), but a defence of contributory negligence against any claim you might make is likely enough.

Which leads to another point. Whichever party had the duty of care (or if both had) - was there negligence on their behalf? Bear in mind it was a forest walk, so the standard would not be the same as for, say, a footpath. Should the Council (if they had a duty of care) have erected a sign ? Would it have made any difference? Or should the child have been better supervised? Etc.

Obviously it is very unlikely that the child is going to sue you. But in the event of an action by you on her behalf, it seems to this layman that a potential defence would relate to your duty of care, and at least partial (or contributory) negligence on your part. There would also likely to be a denial of negligence and that a fallen tree in the context of a forest is not negligence.

In relation to your specific question "is there a case or not?" it would seem to me there is a case. Whether or not the case would succeed is a different thing. You may recall a case that made the news prominently over recent years. It was won in the Circuit Court but lost on appeal. I am not suggesting your case is directly the same or that it would proceed so far, but some of the precedents it set may be relevant.

www.thejournal.ie

High Court overturns €40,000 damages payout to woman who fell on Wicklow Way

The judge said the woman was genuine, but had been negligent when she fell.
www.thejournal.ie www.thejournal.ie
 
LaurenGalway said:
I’m asking a legal question - is there a case or not?
don’t need the lectures or how to raise children
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You’ll get opinions on both sides from lay people and legal eagles alike, but you won’t know the answer to that one until you have your day in court. But what you can expect for sure is that your parenting skills will feature very much in the defense case
 
Was it a Coillte-owned forest?

In managed forests owned by Coillte tree felling is common, inevitable even.

Felled areas can be right beside forest paths and quite hazardous. I wouldn't even take a short cut through one and I've spent a lot of time outdoors.

In any case a fallen tree is impossible to avoid once you're in a forest. It can be often more hazardous to leave a damaged tree up.

In my (casual) knowledge there aren't many successful claims for personal injury in forest settings in Ireland.

Personally I would leave it be.
 
Early Riser said:
Clearly there has been an injury. The extent of it is not the point. And the injury is to your child - not you. So any claim you might make would be on behalf of your child.
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Also, claims involving children are approved by a judge, and details are read out in open court.

Are you happy to have you and your child's details reported in the media? Even in an unsuccessful case?
 
LaurenGalway said:
Fidel I’m not looking for a moral verdict thank you very much - I’m perfectly happy with my/our morals - I’m asking a legal question - is there a case or not from a legal perspective.
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You haven't given enough information for anyone to answer a legal question. Certainly not enough for anyone to confirm that you have a valid claim for damages.

It's not enough that you see an injury and assume that someone must owe you money.

Your child "fell off a tree that had been cut down". In this context, what does "fell off" mean? Was your child climbing the tree?

When you say there was no notice about the tree felling, what type of behaviour did you permit your child to engage in, that you would not have permitted had you seen a notice informing you of something so out of the ordinary as a tree falling in a wood?

Clearly you're not looking for a moral verdict. You're looking for money.

All Fidel is doing is asking you to consider the effect of your actions on those who pay taxes, insurance both directly and indirectly, and who may now or in the future like to bring their kids to a public amenity.

That you see this gentle request as a moral verdict isn't all that surprising. You want money, and have convinced yourself that you deserve money. Being asked to think about the person you will effectively be taking the money from must be jarring.

If you could provide a little more detail as requested above, we might be able to answer your legal question. The vagueness of the information you've provided to this point suggests that there might be more to the story that wouldn't reflect well on you.
 
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You went for a walk in a forest. Surprise surprise there was a tree on the ground after being cut down. Is this a likely occurrence in a forested area? Yes. Would it be a reasonable expectation that the forest owners would have signs stating. Danger Trees cut down. I dont think that it would be reasonable. If a tree was in a dangerous state and at risk of falling there would be some level of duty of care.
Your questions. 1. Do we have case. There is always a case. The question to be asked should be "Is there a winnable case on the balance of probabilities?"
I'm not so sure. It could be a gamble. You could win the case but on a percentage liability which mightnt be great financially.

2. Should we pursue it? With the exception of scarring the child will make a full recovery. However the child is a female and the scarring might be embarassing in later life. You will need expert medical advice to be able to give the court an idea of the possible level of visible scarring into adulthood.
There wont be a big payout in any event. I dont think it would be a High Court case and if it is a State forest they wont settle as it would create precedents.
Some shyster solicitor might recommend taking a case but there would be a certain amount of costs incurred with no guarantee of an awarda
 
Not going to comment on the merits of your case as don't know the full story (as you failed to provide it) but if its the council you intend to pursue you should know that they defend these actions rigorously as they should. They will have experts at their disposal who will counteract facts you present. So be prepared for the long road ahead and the very large costs involved in taking a case where you will have to present your own expert reports and witnesses (if they were any). And if you fail you will be landed with a sizeable council bill along with your own. 35 stitches is a hell of stitches to receive from falling off a tree that was on the ground so could only be a few feet high....I'd expect a broken bone or two but 35 stitches is open heart surgery territory stitching.
 
These things happen, they are called accidents. I hate the idea of people looking for someone to blame. Get on with your life, take more care the next time. If the tree was felled while your child was underneath it then fair enough, but this kind of thing turns my stomach. You may not want the compensation claim culture lecture, but you deserve it. And yes, some solicitor will take the case, and be delighted to charge you lots of money. Doesn't make it the right thing to do.
 
Where on the leg was the injury?

Is your child unable to walk / has a limp and is that likely to improve?

What medical expenses did you have?
 
Be thankful your child is ok and not left with long term brain damage as many are after sustaining falls.
 
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