Pay down tracker mortgage now and take out home loan in 4 years?

lambrush19

New Member
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Personal details
Age: 46
Other half: 45
Number and age of children: 3 children: 9, 7 and 1

Income and expenditure
Annual gross income from employment or profession: €87,000
Annual gross income of spouse: €66,000 (but moving to 3 day week from September)
Monthly take-home pay: circa €5,500 from September
Type of employment: Both public sector
From September, we plan to save circa €2,500 per month

Summary of Assets and Liabilities
Family home worth €600k
Cash €155k (of which a max of 30k is earmarked for the following in the autumn: (i) changing car, and (ii) refurbishing bathroom and one bedroom)
Pension: both public sector pensions

Family home mortgage information
€215k tracker with PTSB, margin is 1.8% so 2.3% is current rate

Other borrowings – car loans/personal loans etc - none

Buy to let properties
None

Other savings and investments
none

Childcare costs from September: circa 1k per month

Other information which might be relevant: None


What specific question do you have or what issues are of concern to you?
We plan to do a big job on the house. Based on a recent quote from a QS, the total cost would be circa 320k at current prices. We have decided to wait 4 years in the hope that building costs decline. However, we are also concerned about rising interest rates. If we switch, for example, to a 7 year fixed now, the best rate is 2.65 with Haven but it will probably be 3% or more by the time we are approved.

We are considering the following option: Pay down existing mortgage with cash funds (including taking an interest free loan of 50k from a close relative, to be paid back after the building work is complete): this would bring the mortgage down to circa 40k. Then save circa 120k over the next 4 years. In 4 year's time, take out loan from a bank to cover the rest of the building costs (obviously the precise amount to be borrowed will depend on building costs in 4 year's time; at current rates it would be a loan for 200k which is too much. I envisage/hope the loan will be circa 100k; we therefore may have to wait 5 (or even 6) years to do the work to build up a sufficient base of savings. This all assumes, however, that building costs are lower in 4 year's time than they are now which may not be the case.)

The question is this: are we better off fixing the mortgage now for 7 or 10 years (at probably circa 3% or more) and focusing on accumulating enough savings over the next 4 years to be able to cover the cost of the building work (with any shortfall in 4 year's time to be made up by taking an interest free loan from a close relative to be paid back post-work). Or should we pay down as much of the tracker mortgage now and just take out a loan in 4 (or 5/6) years time? In short, we are caught between wanting to avoid a relatively high mortgage rate now versus wanting to do the work no later than in 4 year's time. I'm wondering is there another option that I am missing.
 
This is complicated.

How many years are left on your mortgage?

This is the problem with being a customer of a predatory lender like permanent tsb. You have very difficult decisions to make if you want to do anything.

With a normal lender, you could pay down your mortgage and borrow again when you need the money. But permanent tsb charges an extortionate rate for top ups.

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Depending on how many years are left, I think you should probably bite the bullet and switch now.

But if you get the loan down to €40k, there wouldn't be much point in switching.

Brendan
 
We plan to do a big job on the house. Based on a recent quote from a QS, the total cost would be circa 320k at current prices. We have decided to wait 4 years in the hope that building costs decline. However, we are also concerned about rising interest rates. If we switch, for example, to a 7 year fixed now, the best rate is 2.65 with Haven but it will probably be 3% or more by the time we are approved.

The choice of 4 years seems a bit arbitrary. My gut feeling is that while you have the financial capacity to do the upgrade, you should just go ahead and do it. You will have an additional 4 years of benefit from the upgrade.

Sure it could be cheaper in 4 years but it could also be a lot more expensive.

Do you have access to alternative accommodation now while you are doing the upgrade? If everything is in place, I would just go ahead with it.

If you make that decision, then the financing strategy will flow from it.

Brendan
 
Thanks, Brendan

I should have said that there is 19 years left on the mortgage.

Doing the work now is not an option as it is too expensive and we don't have sufficient cash savings (unless we topped up our current mortgage which we have no intention of doing). Although not ideal, we are prepared to wait 3/4 years. What we don't want to do is wait more than 3/4 years.
 
€215k tracker with PTSB, margin is 1.8% so 2.3% is current rate

Cash €155k (of which a max of 30k is earmarked for the following in the autumn: (i) changing car, and (ii) refurbishing bathroom and one bedroom)

the total cost would be circa 320k at current prices.

Annual gross income from employment or profession: €87,000
Annual gross income of spouse: €66,000
If you do it now, you will have
Mortgage of €215k
cost of extension €320k
Less cash (€125k)
Net mortgage: €410k

Gross salary in Sept: €130k
Loan to Income: 3.15 times

From September, we plan to save circa €2,500 per month

After 48 months, you will have €120k

If the cost of the extension rises by 40% over the next 4 years, that will use up the €120k.

If you are worried that you can't afford it now, there is a good chance that it will be less affordable in 4 years.

So can you do a smaller extension?

Could you achieve what you want by moving house? That might actually be cheaper.

Brendan
 
I should have said that there is 19 years left on the mortgage.

Then switch to another lender - Avant or Haven. Avant has just increased its rates, so it's probably less likely to increase them than the other lenders. But apply to both.

Fix for 5 years probably.

Brendan
 
I think ptsb still have a 7 year fixed rate of 3% for current customers.

Don't be hard set on upgrading if it's 3-4 years away and keep an eye on potential other properties that may suit your needs.

I'd keep the mortgage as is, look at your budget and see what you have for the option of moving house.
 
Many thanks for the views.

We have considered the option of moving (which is certainly cheaper than extending and renovating) but our preference at the moment is to stay. This may change if building costs do not fall over the next few years.

Thinking through the option of moving, would it be better to pay off the tracker mortgage now (or asap) and take out a new fixed-rate mortgage if we move in a few year's time or keep the current tracker mortgage and switch to a new fixed-rate mortgage when we move. I should say that we moved in 2018 and ported the tracker mortgage to our current property which increased the margin from 0.8% to 1.8%. My understanding is that you can't do this a second time and, even if we could, it wouldn't make financial sense given the unattractive margin on the tracker. I guess one issue to consider with the option of moving is that the longer we wait to move, the higher the fixed-rate mortgage we will likely be facing given the current direction of interest rates.
 
This may change if building costs do not fall over the next few years.
Building costs are not like the price of petrol. they are unlikely to fall materially.

Even in the post-2008 crash building costs didn't fall by much, and that was with employment in the private sector falling by about a fifth in four years. It did get easier to find a builder though.

Inflation is a reason to accelerate things rather than delay them. Why wait if it's reasonable to expect things to be more expensive in a year or two?
 
The proposed plan seems crazy.

Paying off cheaper debt with a view to borrowing again.

You’re in safe public sector employment with your pension funding sorted.

Just get the job done now and move on with your lives.

Or move house…will €320k spent on a €600k house make it a €920k house? Or even an €800k house?

And why would a €415k mortgage be “too much”? Post you moving to a 3 day week, your household income will be €127k. €415k would be 3.27 times your safe predictable public sector income in a world where the much criticised Central Bank limits allow for 3.5 times with up to 4.5 times for exceptional cases.
 
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Thinking through the option of moving, would it be better to pay off the tracker mortgage now (or asap) and take out a new fixed-rate mortgage if we move in a few year's time

Yes, you should pay off your mortgage now.

A 1.8% margin tracker is not a cheap mortgage.

Over the next 4 years, you will be repaying €36k in capital anyway.

And I can't overemphasise how important it is to get away from ptsb's predatory lending practices.

Brendan
 
I recently made a similar consideration. My old PPR was worth approx €350k and it was a 4 bed semi in a good town centre area. I got a rough estimate to extend out the back and to the side and build a new garage. It was going to cost €150-200k for a basic design and finish.
However, the house was never going to be a €500k house so I moved to a bigger more modern house that ticks all the boxes. My new house cost approx €500k but it is a major upgrade on my old house and there was no hassle with builders, dust and finding temporary accommodation.
 
Two follow-up questions on this. Any views/information would be much appreciated.

(1) If we switched the tracker mortgage now to a 5 or 7 year fixed mortgage with Avant and then decided to move house in a few years’ time (and decided to take out a new mortgage with Avant), how feasible is this? My understanding is that there is no break fee if we stayed with Avant but that there are certain conditions. What are these conditions? Also, is there a break fee if we decided to switch to an alternative provider from Avant (I presume yes) and, if so, what is the break fee and the conditions?

(2) Same as (1) but instead if we switched now to a 5 year fixed with AIB and then decided to move house in a few years’ time (and decided to take out a new mortgage with AIB), how feasible is this? Is there a break fee and/or certain conditions? Also, is there a break fee if we decided to switch to an alternative provider from AIB and, if so, what is the break fee and the conditions?
 
By the time you complete the switch rates will most likely have changed.

Ptsb have 5 and 7 year fixed for current customers at 3%.

That is probably the best option for now if you are not paying off.

1.8 tracker will likely be a 2.8% mortgage rate in 5 weeks time and over 3% in January.
 
We were informed yesterday that we are close to getting AIP from Avant who currently have a 5 year fixed for 2.65.
 
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