Party / boundary fence
- Thread starter Jobrien
- Start date
I think you'd need to clarify if this is really a party wall i.e. right down the centre of the boundary line, or is it on the neighbour's side only?
If it's on their side, I believe there's nothing you can do except put up something on your own side.
If it's shared, then I understand they'd need your consent to make changes and you could go legal if they made changes you didn't want:
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/neighbour-disputes/boundary-disputes/
If it's on their side, I believe there's nothing you can do except put up something on your own side.
If it's shared, then I understand they'd need your consent to make changes and you could go legal if they made changes you didn't want:
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/neighbour-disputes/boundary-disputes/
I can't find anything about the boundaries in my deeds.
The fence was there when the house's were built. Slotted into concrete pillars.
Except for that you are....
But I don't want the existing fence removed because we have maintained it every year and it's in good condition.
I don't want them going near it.
PaddyBloggit
Registered User
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Is it on your land or theirs?
Like I mentioned before it's been there since the house's were built. I have always believed it to be a communal fence. I can not find a scale map in my deeds showing the property with boundary lines.
If it’s been there since day one them it’s a boundary structure. What is the neighbours’ argument for taking it down now? And more to the point, how do they intend to replace it.
Early Riser
Registered User
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This (abbreviated) from The Irish Times, Jan 18 2022, may be relevant:
"Q. I have a problem with a boundary wall. Is it legitimate for a neighbour to cut part of my boundary wall to erect a concrete post and wooden fence without my permission? They didn’t consult or inform me about the work which they carried out.
I approached their workmen as they started to cut and demolish the wall and they ignored me. I asked them to stop a second time only to be ignored again. Can they do this?
A. From your description it appears that your neighbour and the workmen adopted a somewhat aggressive stance in response to your requests to stop the removal of part of the wall.....
......The deed map attached to your original property title deed, and/or dimensions in the deed are the definitive evidence of the extent of ownership. However, many deed maps are not sufficiently detailed to be definitive. If your property is registered, you should obtain a copy of the folio and Land Registry map. This map is indicative only and therefore does not show definitive boundaries.
However, part two of the folio is likely to contain an instrument number. This instrument, which can be obtained from the Land Registry, contains documents used to register your property in your name. It may therefore include a deed map.
You may need the assistance of a chartered geomatics surveyor to assist in the sourcing of some documents, to interpret maps and relevant information, and to take measurements and prepare a dimensioned map for verification. A short report from your surveyor would be helpful.
You should record dates and details of your conversations with your neighbour and the workmen and take photos of the boundary changes. When in possession of all available information, including your surveyor’s report, you should present these to your solicitor and seek legal advice.
If it transpires that the wall is a party wall, ie constructed on the legal boundary line such that the wall is partly in your property and partly in your neighbour’s property, you both have shared responsibility. In such case, your neighbour must have your consent before substantially interfering with it, such as removing part of it. Irrespective of the extent of your ownership in the wall, your solicitor will advise on the best course of action.
This advice may include an informal approach to your neighbour in an effort to resolve the issue by explaining the surveyor’s findings and also to avoid escalation. Your position will be considerably strengthened if you have evidence of ownership and have obtained legal advice. Your objective should be to resolve it without litigation, if possible."
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www.irishtimes.com
"Q. I have a problem with a boundary wall. Is it legitimate for a neighbour to cut part of my boundary wall to erect a concrete post and wooden fence without my permission? They didn’t consult or inform me about the work which they carried out.
I approached their workmen as they started to cut and demolish the wall and they ignored me. I asked them to stop a second time only to be ignored again. Can they do this?
A. From your description it appears that your neighbour and the workmen adopted a somewhat aggressive stance in response to your requests to stop the removal of part of the wall.....
......The deed map attached to your original property title deed, and/or dimensions in the deed are the definitive evidence of the extent of ownership. However, many deed maps are not sufficiently detailed to be definitive. If your property is registered, you should obtain a copy of the folio and Land Registry map. This map is indicative only and therefore does not show definitive boundaries.
However, part two of the folio is likely to contain an instrument number. This instrument, which can be obtained from the Land Registry, contains documents used to register your property in your name. It may therefore include a deed map.
You may need the assistance of a chartered geomatics surveyor to assist in the sourcing of some documents, to interpret maps and relevant information, and to take measurements and prepare a dimensioned map for verification. A short report from your surveyor would be helpful.
You should record dates and details of your conversations with your neighbour and the workmen and take photos of the boundary changes. When in possession of all available information, including your surveyor’s report, you should present these to your solicitor and seek legal advice.
If it transpires that the wall is a party wall, ie constructed on the legal boundary line such that the wall is partly in your property and partly in your neighbour’s property, you both have shared responsibility. In such case, your neighbour must have your consent before substantially interfering with it, such as removing part of it. Irrespective of the extent of your ownership in the wall, your solicitor will advise on the best course of action.
This advice may include an informal approach to your neighbour in an effort to resolve the issue by explaining the surveyor’s findings and also to avoid escalation. Your position will be considerably strengthened if you have evidence of ownership and have obtained legal advice. Your objective should be to resolve it without litigation, if possible."
My neighbour cut part of my boundary wall without asking. What can I do?
Property Clinic: Proving ownership is the first step in resolving a boundary dispute
It’s a wonder he gave you advance notice if he intends to do this without any regard for what you might regard as acceptable.
@Early Riser has provided a great reference that outlines your legal position although it would require legal action (e.g. an injunction) to give effect to your legal rights
Has the neighbour offered any explanation as to why he wants to take this course of action? Is he of sound mind?
They want to replace it with their own new fence. They are doing a very big job in their back garden and part of their front garden which they have their side but they have already used a digger in the front and enchroched over onto my side and have also damaged my side with the digger. It's a mess. It's a long story, last Sunday he approach me to say that he was knocking on my door all day on the previous Friday. I explained that I was in hospital with my dieing brother. He said that they were going to put their new fence against mine. I said fine as they already have a fence against my side on their side. The next evening his wife came over to say that they wanted to slot their fence into where the original fence is. There is nothing wrong with the fence that is there as we maintained and painted it every year.
I had just gotten bad news about my brother and I honestly wasn't thinking straight so I said ok to her. I ask her the next day if the new fence could be painted as it is not the usual type of fence and doesn't look to be as good quality. She said that I would have to be careful that it didn't go through to her side. They know that my husband isn't here at the moment and they asked if he was coming back and I without thinking said not for a while. My husband is in hospital but that's not any of their business.
They moved in from Lithuania 3 years ago.
Anyway he told me that he is going to remove the original fence and I said that he couldn't without my agreement and he said that he is going to anyway and that I could .... off. So now I am in bits worrying about what to do when his work men go about taking the fence out tomorrow morning.
They are taking advantage of the fact that I am on my own. They wouldn't have spoken to me as they did if my husband were here. That's why they asked me if he was coming back.
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I think you need to talk to them again but bring someone with you, preferably male, from what you describe they sound very aggressive indeed and acting out of order but it’s much harder to bully someone with backup and a witness too. Do you have another neighbour or a family member who could step in to help with this while your husband is unwell? Best of luck with it.
@Jobrien - from your own perspective, document everything up to now - take photos of the front & back etc, include timelines and as much info as you can in your notes.
Idealy, if you feeel up to it, talk to them again on this, but if you feel threatend or itimidated, etc, then just walk away and try not to get into a discussion / argument with them. It's a very stressful time on it's own, but with you brother's situation, we can only imagine how difficult this is.
Idealy, if you feeel up to it, talk to them again on this, but if you feel threatend or itimidated, etc, then just walk away and try not to get into a discussion / argument with them. It's a very stressful time on it's own, but with you brother's situation, we can only imagine how difficult this is.