Overwhelmed by size of Debt- Please advise

Bilbo1

Registered User
Messages
39
Hi,
I'm very sorry you find yourself in your situation. I would say this is not a money problem but a relationship problem. You have joint finances with him, but he does not have joint finances with you. And he knew perfectly well why he was getting the 8K limit on the CC.
From what you say, he's putting his hobby above the financial stability of his family.
If he is refusing to attend counseling to try to save the marriage, what else is left to try?
Maybe others with more experience in such cases can offer some advice
 

Mocame

Registered User
Messages
33
I have a relative who had a serious alcohol addiction for many years and your husband's behaviour looks similar to me. Sadly a person with an addiction thinks mainly about themselves and not others. They also only change when they hit rock bottom and can see no other option. It strikes me that your husband has never had to face the consequences of his behaviour. You have been a real hero trying to keep the family finances together for the sake of the children. However that suits your husband just fine so why would he change?
 

Shinynails

Registered User
Messages
8
Hi there Finance1, to echo another poster you really are a hero. Amazing achievement to have come so far in 12 months with that level of debt.
Now this is the man that has brought over 200k debt in to my life... Why did he refuse ?.
You know why he refused. You are giving him the benefit of the doubt but he does not deserve that.

His actions are clearly telling you where his priorities and intentions lie.
His actions are still dishonest and risky.

This is a worry. I’m sorry to be so blunt but when my husband was fooling me I overlooked so many clues that in hindsight I wish I didn’t. Those clues were opportunities for me to dig deeper and confront what was happening. For lots of misguided reasons; I kept my head in the sand.

You have the choice to do something about his behavior or not.
In 5 years where would ignoring his behavior potentially lead you and the kids....more than likely in a place you don’t want.

You deserve honesty, and if he is not behaving with integrity then why not, where are his values?

You deserve more and you can’t make him behave differently but you do not have to accept dishonesty again.

Best of luck, stand strong in your power
 

Finance1

Registered User
Messages
8
Hi,
I'm very sorry you find yourself in your situation. I would say this is not a money problem but a relationship problem. You have joint finances with him, but he does not have joint finances with you. And he knew perfectly well why he was getting the 8K limit on the CC.
From what you say, he's putting his hobby above the financial stability of his family.
If he is refusing to attend counseling to try to save the marriage, what else is left to try?
Maybe others with more experience in such cases can offer some advice
Thanks so much for taking the time to reply .
Hi there Finance1, to echo another poster you really are a hero. Amazing achievement to have come so far in 12 months with that level of debt.

You know why he refused. You are giving him the benefit of the doubt but he does not deserve that.

His actions are clearly telling you where his priorities and intentions lie.
His actions are still dishonest and risky.

This is a worry. I’m sorry to be so blunt but when my husband was fooling me I overlooked so many clues that in hindsight I wish I didn’t. Those clues were opportunities for me to dig deeper and confront what was happening. For lots of misguided reasons; I kept my head in the sand.

You have the choice to do something about his behavior or not.
In 5 years where would ignoring his behavior potentially lead you and the kids....more than likely in a place you don’t want.

You deserve honesty, and if he is not behaving with integrity then why not, where are his values?

You deserve more and you can’t make him behave differently but you do not have to accept dishonesty again.

Best of luck, stand strong in your power
hi thanks for taking the time to reply and to the other posters .. I find some days so hard as I feel I have taken one step forward in the relationship and now ten steps back. Money in my life is constant stress and worry due to level of debt he has gotten into . My salary each month goes into joint account where all bills are paid including his debt .. now clearly he has potentially a sold account which I knew existed but never saw a Bank statement and was told nothing in it . Also the explanation for cc was business expenses were put on it but balance as far as I know has not been cleared down . I have 3 amazing children and am doing everything for them but so hard when I feel is not been honest. If there was nothing to hide then show me the banking app ??..
 

Shinynails

Registered User
Messages
8
You nailed it there when you said ‘you have taken one step forward’ however HE is not in step with you. You aren’t taking ten steps back but he may be dragging you backwards. That is not your fault. He is accountable for his own actions he is acting very shady.

Is there anyone else, accountant/ bookkeeper that you can contact and ask for information? If not I would really consider legal advice and let him know you have no option as he won’t converse honestly with you. Not to go for seperation per say but to see where you stand considering how you have been implicated in his financial mid-dealings already.

You don’t have anything to hide and you need answers. He is adding to your stress when you have been nothing but a saviour and solution to his problems.

I share your position as the wife of a good but financially stupid risk taking guy and mother to 3 children. The stress is enormous and nothing is the same. It’s very hard
 
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Shinynails

Registered User
Messages
8
Also, Finance1, what do you want? What is the ideal scenario for you? Obviously you want him to engage honestly with you. How likely is that to happen? Does he need to attend counselling again with you?...if he doesn't what then?

Maybe you should engage back with a counsellor as you are looking for guidance and you could gain clarity through therapy?

Sorry for throwing out questions and no need to answer them here but just wanted you to think about your needs.
 

AlbacoreA

Registered User
Messages
3,531
Is there any advantage in forcing this to crisis. Stop putting your money in the joint account. Start putting it somewhere else.

I don't know I'm just thinking out loud.
 

Zeus2020

Registered User
Messages
8
He is taking advantage of you again if it was me I would get rid of him life is too short you would be better off on your own with your own money and children people like him don’t change as long as they have someone to fall back on to sort everything for then
 

Bronte

Registered User
Messages
14,165
My salary each month goes into joint account where all bills are paid including his debt .. now clearly he has potentially a sold account which I knew existed but never saw a Bank statement and was told nothing in it . Also the explanation for cc was business expenses were put on it but balance as far as I know has not been cleared down . I have 3 amazing children and am doing everything for them but so hard when I feel is not been honest. If there was nothing to hide then show me the banking app ??..
Is his hobby gambling, because that's what's screaming at me from your posts. My husband has a Paddy Power account and he does his bets on the phone. He doesn't have a gambling problem though.

If his CC level is 8K and he keeps servicing that they are likely to increase his limit. I have a SIL who runs up CC debt, drives my brother nuts so he every few years 'gift's her to pay them back and she runs it up again.

Personally if this were me I'd not let a stone unturned to find out what is going on in his account. Your husband is being very dishonest with you.
 

Northie

Registered User
Messages
91
Hi Finance1 -
You have come along way in a year - and as others have said you are a remarkable woman to get through what you have as well as working and raising a family. It may be easy to think that getting rid of him is the only next thing to do (I speak from experience when I say that just creates a whole other set of problems) - and that is a massive step which can stop you thinking about other small things you can do right now.

I don't know if you are still seeing a counsellor but if you're not consider going back. As you point out there is a huge amount of distrust in your relationship and you need a safe place to figure out exactly what your red line issues are.

Forget about the "joint finances" you don't have that if your husband wont share details of his account/CC with you, you need your own account. The joint account can stay for the household bills, debts etc but you need to be building up your own financial independence. It may only be 20 a month but start somewhere. A friend told me ages ago that you need to value yourself (ie "paying" yourself €20 a month) or no one will.

While I agree that he should be showing you his account details - what happens if he keeps refusing, you'll be stressed and beating yourself up over it. Work out what the family's monthly outgoing is and each of you are responsible for putting half (or whatever division makes sense) into the family account. You will be tempted to "cover" his portion - that's what you've been doing up till now - but at some point that has to stop. He needs to see that he's as responsible as you are to ensure your family is taken care of. Whether subconsciously or deliberately he has made you responsible for shouldering all the stress over this.

The hardest suggestion I have - for right now is to try and take the emotion out of it and trust me I know how hard that is. But in some ways as long as you are emotionally invested in "fixing" him you will always be taking one step forward to get dragged back 10 steps. In your head make it a business arrangement. You are partners in a business - "your family" and you both have monthly payments that must be made. Its not easy, you obviously have a sensible, reasonable head on your shoulders and put your family first - that makes it very difficult not to step in and want to see a problem fixed. Hence my suggestion on the counselling - you need to figure out for yourself what's worth fighting for and what needs to be let go of
 

AlbacoreA

Registered User
Messages
3,531
You are facilitating his habits. Unless you stop, he has no reason to change.
That is easy to say but not easy to do. Financially you are linked at the hip.

I know married couples who didn't fall out with each other, but couldn't get past some practical issue. So separate and ultimately divorce for that reason alone. This might be why people get divorced but ultimately get back together but not remarry, but retain their independence.

You need a draw a line in the sand, and stick with it. Its the only path to financial independence.
 

Leper

Registered User
Messages
1,484
"You need a draw a line in the sand, and stick with it. Its the only path to financial independence."
Probably the soundest advice you'll receive anywhere. Well said AlbacoreA.
We gave that same advice to all our offspring as they grew older.
 

dubdub123

Registered User
Messages
66
After all that you've been through and how far you have come, he is going to drag you back into more and more debt. He clearly has no consideration for the impact to you (financially, mentally...) and also to your children. You need to think ahead now and start to understand your options. Would you consider speaking to a solicitor just to understand where you might stand? Basically though if you are living in a family home, you both have the right to reside so he would not necessarily have to go.
I think he's taking complete advantage of you and he's not being honest or supportive. Don't him in an ultimatum but instead try and find out your options. separation/divorce is not an easy road but you would have some control back in your life and perhaps could rest a bit easy knowing that you are on the way to securing some sort of a future for yourself and children. What an awful situation for you.
 

Finance1

Registered User
Messages
8
once again thanks so much for all the people who took time to post .. it honestly means a lot to me .. I think I posted originally to see if there were other women like myself who became directors of their husbands company and ended up like me .
1. Some people have suggested me keeping my salary separate and only paying half of bills. The reason that I have not done this is because I manage all the finances . He does lodge his salary into the joint account each month but as u can appreciate the finances are tight each month paying everything. Also he has no pension no savings and I worry when there is no accountability from him how badly will his finances be in 5 or 10 years .
2. I did threaten separation last year . I found out there was money on CC and rang a solicitor. The revenue debt is in my name so even if I separate I don’t walk away from debt . The solicitor told me I could stop paying and through the court challenge it’s not my debt . I don’t have money to challenge that ..
3. I decided then to try and work at marriage and said nothing more of Cc . It does not go away, always in my mind .. more debt . But once again I am back here again.
4 . Regarding the counselling not a hope of him going and the reason is she was asking all the right questions which he did not want to answer. He never wants to be accountable..
I am far from perfect but am a very good mother who is working full time and puts myself last . My husband on the other hand does not seem to understand that he solely brought the debt into my life but expect that he can continue and has done his expensive hobbies even though we can’t afford to at this time .. hence not letting me see the banking app.
Apologies for long post but feeling a lot of hurt and pain at the way I have and am being treated.. Thanks again..
 

Shinynails

Registered User
Messages
8
You are really hurting and it does not seem fair at all. Thank you for sharing, it is a painful place to be in.

I was similar to you in that I was left to settle a PG from my husband’s liquidated company. We lost a lot even friends :(. He made bad company decisions and hid so much from me before it imploded. I had to find out myself like you ...firstly, become suspicious, being fed tales, being stonewalled and eventually I made calls and confronted him with evidence. It was desperate.
However in order for our marriage to continue new baselines were agreed and I had to see him genuinely address his behaviour and change his ways.

The hurt from financial betrayal is terrible. You are right to feel so much pain
 

Finance1

Registered User
Messages
8
You are really hurting and it does not seem fair at all. Thank you for sharing, it is a painful place to be in.

I was similar to you in that I was left to settle a PG from my husband’s liquidated company. We lost a lot even friends :(. He made bad company decisions and hid so much from me before it imploded. I had to find out myself like you ...firstly, become suspicious, being fed tales, being stonewalled and eventually I made calls and confronted him with evidence. It was desperate.
However in order for our marriage to continue new baselines were agreed and I had to see him genuinely address his behaviour and change his ways.

The hurt from financial betrayal is terrible. You are right to feel so much pain
 

Finance1

Registered User
Messages
8
Thanks so much Shinynails. You clearly have gone through so much yourself!!..Can I ask do u trust your husband with money now ??.. How did you manage to get through it ??.
 

Shinynails

Registered User
Messages
8
Honestly no, I do not trust him with money.
I trust even less that he will resist falling back into the same way of thinking that led to his mistakes.
So I manage all the money now. He hands it all over. It’s transparent he can see what I do with it. I returned to work. My career break to spend time with the kids was the worst period of my life facing bankruptcy etc. Panicking that I had left a good job frantically trying to secure another feeling like such a fool. That precious time we both agreed I’d have at home with the kids he robbed from me too.
Getting through it and learning to forgive, accepting what is, moving forward takes time and acceptance was key. I had to just let go of what was lost and be present. He genuinely is doing the best he can to make amends. That is important to me too.

It is a really lonely place to be too. So reach out to either a really solid buddy or a therapist x
 

Finance1

Registered User
Messages
8
Honestly no, I do not trust him with money.
I trust even less that he will resist falling back into the same way of thinking that led to his mistakes.
So I manage all the money now. He hands it all over. It’s transparent he can see what I do with it. I returned to work. My career break to spend time with the kids was the worst period of my life facing bankruptcy etc. Panicking that I had left a good job frantically trying to secure another feeling like such a fool. That precious time we both agreed I’d have at home with the kids he robbed from me too.
Getting through it and learning to forgive, accepting what is, moving forward takes time and acceptance was key. I had to just let go of what was lost and be present. He genuinely is doing the best he can to make amends. That is important to me too.

It is a really lonely place to be too. So reach out to either a really solid buddy or a therapist x
Thanks so much for all your posts and your honesty ... and taking the time .. You have done an amazing job yourself !!.. Wishing you the very best ..
 
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