Over night allowance civil service

T

Turbo Tommy

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Hi, I am a new entrant in the civil service based in kilkenny. I have been notified that i must attend 8 weeks training in Dublin for 3 days a week. My department has booked a B+B for the nights of the course. This includes accommodation and breakfast only. I have been told that I can't claim overnight expenses as they are providing accommodation. I was notified that i can claim mileage for one return journey per week (so can't travel home daily) and should use public transport where possible. The course runs from 9.30 to 4.30 daily. I'm wondering if one can typically claim for lunch and dinner in the civil service when overnight accommodation is provided. If so, how would this typically be done?
 
Turbo Tommy said:
Hi, I am a new entrant in the civil service based in kilkenny......I have been told that I can't claim overnight expenses as they are providing accommodation....... I'm wondering if one can typically claim for lunch and dinner in the civil service when overnight accommodation is provided.
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That's the spirit!
 
Turbo, normally in your situation you would just get the overnight allowance (€125 per night I think) and this amount should be used to cover your accommodation and subsistence (meals). In your case your are being provided with accommodation and so you should be entitled to the 10 hour subsistence rate of €33.61 per day to cover your meals. They are correct re the one return journey per week as you are staying over night.

If I was you I would go back to them and tell them you want the flat overnight rate of €125 and book your own accommodation and you will still be able to claim the mileage for one return trip a week. If I recall the rules say to qualify for the overnight flat rate you have to be travelling to somewhere more than 100km from your home or from your base office location whichever is nearer which you are.
 
Thanks learner 2015 for your help.

I am not allowed to book the accommodation myself. The course runs from 9:30 to 4:30 so I was told that I cannot claim the 10hr allowance.

I just find the situation unfair in so much that I am away from home and will be out of pocket for meals and my salary is very small.

What are the rules regarding the 10hr allowance? If I kept meal receipts would it be acceptable to submit these?

Thanks
 
It does seem unfair. You should receive some sort of daily allowance to cover meals IF they are not provided. I think there is a five hour allowance also?
 
As Ihana said there is a 5 hour allowance which is €14.01. To qualify for this and the 10 hour you need to more than 8km away, which you will be.

I don't agree with their interpretation for the 10hr. It is based on how many hours you are away from home - in your case you are 24 hours away each day hence you should qualify for the 10 hour.
 
Thanks again for the help.

The only issue with the subsistence is that it is an online system that you must enter the date and start + finish times of the course and it is calculated automatically.

So I think I will be able to get the 5 hr allowance. The only thing is that 14.01 will bearly cover lunch and dinner! Maybe McDonald's!
 
Turbo, I know you are new and don't want to rock the boat etc but at the end of the day whoever is telling you 5 hour only is wrong. 5 hours is based on an employee only having to get one meal, you have to get 2, lunch and dinner. As I said these allowances are calculated on your time away from home, not the length of the course.

Re the system as your line manager what times you can put in as you are entitled to the 10 hour.
 
Hard when you are only in the door Turbo but you really should push for what you are entitled too - are any of the other new employees unhappy with the situation, did you join the union?
 
Thanks for all the advice. I posted the question because I felt it has to be wrong that i couldn't claim a 10hr allowance.

I didn't join the union but enquired about joining and asked the union rep in the office. He checked it out and said that 5hr allowance would be the norm when they are providing accommodation and the course is only 6 hours a day.

Im not happy to join that union to be honest.

I think i will have to ask my line manager about the 10hr allowance and insist that they have the wrong interpretation.

Does anyone know Who can you go to if I wanted someone independent to confirm if you are entitled to the 10hr or not?

Worst case I can get the 5hr and it's not the end of the world.
 
The circular Van Driver references 11/82 at part 18 states "Subject to paragraph 17, a day allowance will be paid in respect of absence from

home or headquarters of 5 hours or more".

This should be enough to confirm with whoever you have to, you are more than 10 hours away from home or headquarters so that's your one.
 
Meanwhile, those in the Private Sector travel at own expense in own time for training courses and in some cases simply to work.
 
Ravima, I disagree.

I worked in the private sector for years and on numerous occasions was sent around the country to attend training etc. not once did I ever have to put my hand in my pocket to cover expenses and I always got time in lieu for any travelling time otherwise I wouldn't have attended the course, I'm sure I'm not the only one that had / has it this way.

I have many colleagues that have a long commute to work each day, in some cases 2 to 3 hours each way at their own cost but they choose to do this otherwise they would get a job closer to home. My colleagues and I are civil servants.
 
Ravima, I disagree.

I worked in the private sector for years and on numerous occasions was sent around the country to attend training etc. not once did I ever have to put my hand in my pocket to cover expenses and I always got time in lieu for any travelling time otherwise I wouldn't have attended the course, I'm sure I'm not the only one that had / has it this way.

Indeed, but you were not looking for EXTRA on top! Private sector people have to do training etc; employer pays and puts them up in accommodation with food etc, but NO private sector employer would then tell them , Oh ya, I forgot to tell ya, ya can also claim extra for being away from home and 'cos you're away from home for 3 nights, you can claim mileage from me for the three nights back home to see the folks, then back to the paid accommodation.
 
Ravima said:
Ravima, I disagree.

I worked in the private sector for years and on numerous occasions was sent around the country to attend training etc. not once did I ever have to put my hand in my pocket to cover expenses and I always got time in lieu for any travelling time otherwise I wouldn't have attended the course, I'm sure I'm not the only one that had / has it this way.

Indeed, but you were not looking for EXTRA on top! Private sector people have to do training etc; employer pays and puts them up in accommodation with food etc, but NO private sector employer would then tell them , Oh ya, I forgot to tell ya, ya can also claim extra for being away from home and 'cos you're away from home for 3 nights, you can claim mileage from me for the three nights back home to see the folks, then back to the paid accommodation.
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An evening meal is not being provided,mileage is not being paid every day,just there and back.It is not even clear that lunch is being provided.
The allowance to be paid for lunch and dinner is €33 .It's hardly a king's ransom now is it?Why the hostility?
 
I must buy my own lunch and dinner as do most private sector employees. There is no hostility, but it galls me to see the sense of entitlement in some of the Public sector employees, when we in the private sector are struggling to exist
 
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