Opinion: People who do nixers and don’t pay tax on the income?

So stealing is ok as long as you aren't very good at it?
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Does that comment have any relevance to what I posted? Just wondering, because you quoted me.
 
Caveat said:
I'm not passing judgement either way, just saying how utterly casual and commonplace this seems to be.
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And that’s the crux of it really; the double standards that most of us apply. We get up on our high horses about others abusing the tax system, some of us even give out about very wealthy Irish people who don’t live here not paying tax here, but we are happy enough to get a discount on what we pay even though we know that the recipient of our cash will evade tax.
 
umop3p!sdn said:
Does that comment have any relevance to what I posted? Just wondering, because you quoted me.
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Yes, tens (if not hundreds) of millions of Euro is stolen from the Irish people every year by people evading their taxes. That bothers you less than the comparatively miniscule amount of money that TD’s get in expenses. On a purely emotional level I can understand this but if you look at in a rational way the plumbers, sparks, chippies and teachers doing nixers and not making a tax return are a far bigger problem.

They are thiefs, the only difference is individually it's on a small scale.
 
One solution is to abolish cash as a form of money.

Greece has recently restricted cash transactions above 1500, as part of efforts to reduce tax evasion.

Abolishing cash would reduce prostutition, illegal drug sales, bank robberies, untaxed income, etc.

It's a win-win all round:
  • no cash handling costs for shops, banks, etc.
  • drop in crime
  • reduced tax evasion
  • more tax revenue allows lower tax rates
  • etc. that I can't think of at the moment
There are difficulties, e.g. tourism, elderly people, etc.
 
Just on a tangent, what about tips in the catering trade?

Chefs and waiting staff rely on tips to make up their weekly wage. Should this be put in same category as nixers?
I assume this is not declared as income. Should this money be put through the restaurant's books and subject to tax or is it seen as a 'gift' between customer and staff?
 
Purple said:
And that’s the crux of it really; the double standards that most of us apply. We get up on our high horses about others abusing the tax system, some of us even give out about very wealthy Irish people who don’t live here not paying tax here, but we are happy enough to get a discount on what we pay even though we know that the recipient of our cash will evade tax.
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Yes fair enough, but in my examples a discount or cash price etc was never sought or discussed - it was just the price I was given. Would any private individual seriously then turn around and demand a VAT invoice instead?

I suppose the logical, moral solution is to request this in advance but if the job isn't critical (where the option of comeback would be desirable and could be assured via VAT invoice etc), why would anyone willingly pay more and what's more, volunteer to do so?

I know it's what they should do but there is more of an onus on the tradesman to talk in terms of price + VAT in the first place IMO.
 
Shawady said:
Just on a tangent, what about tips in the catering trade?

Chefs and waiting staff rely on tips to make up their weekly wage. Should this be put in same category as nixers?
I assume this is not declared as income. Should this money be put through the restaurant's books and subject to tax or is it seen as a 'gift' between customer and staff?
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Tips are taxable and should be recorded as bonuses on payslips.

Good point.

Selling stuff on ebay is another one.
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The occasional selling of second hand items on ebay is not taxable. However, selling new goods or high volumes of second hand good is - the majority of such eBay sellers are actually small businesses and file tax returns/accounts etc.
 
Yes, tens (if not hundreds) of millions of Euro is stolen from the Irish people every year by people evading their taxes. That bothers you less than the comparatively miniscule amount of money that TD’s get in expenses. On a purely emotional level I can understand this but if you look at in a rational way the plumbers, sparks, chippies and teachers doing nixers and not making a tax return are a far bigger problem.
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TD's expenses was just one of the things I posted. More important by far is Nama and bank bailouts. How do these compare to tax evasion by trades people? - this is measured in billions, rather than millions.

Yes, TD expenses annoy me more because these are the people that supposedly make the rules.

And that’s the crux of it really; the double standards that most of us apply. We get up on our high horses about others abusing the tax system, some of us even give out about very wealthy Irish people who don’t live here not paying tax here, but we are happy enough to get a discount on what we pay even though we know that the recipient of our cash will evade tax.
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It's been pointed out already on this thread that:
1. It's up to the trades person to declare their income and pay their taxes.
2. Cash payments do not automatically mean tax evasion.

Did you not read this points?
 
csirl said:
Tips are taxable and should be recorded as bonuses on payslips.
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In my experience tips are put into a jar and shared out at the end of the night.
Does this mean there is potentially a lot of undeclared income in the catering sector?
 
Yes fair enough, but in my examples a discount or cash price etc was never sought or discussed - it was just the price I was given. Would any private individual seriously then turn around and demand a VAT invoice instead?
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The only people who require a VAT invoice are those who are eligible to claim the VAT back. This would not apply to the vast majority situations where a private individual hires a tradesman. (A lot put the VAT amount on the invoice, but there is no requirement to do so). Ordinary individuals do not get VAT invoices for purchasing other services e.g. hairdressing, GP fees, dentist fees etc. etc. It is assumed that the price on the receipt is inclusive of VAT if it is not specifically stated.

Paying in cash is nothing to do with whether or not a trademan is doing a nixer. Who among us would be comfortable giving a credit card number/details to a self employed person you've never met? I wouldnt. How many tradesmen even have the facility to take credit cards? The reality is that the vast majority of such jobs are paid in cash for pure practical reasons. If a customer asks a price for a job, it is assumed that the price is inclusive of everything - it is not the customers responsibility to sort out the tradesmans tax affairs. If I pay in cash, I expect the tradesman to record it in his accounts and pay the appropriate taxation. Just because you pay in cash, it doesnt mean that no tax applies.
 
Shawady said:
In my experience tips are put into a jar and shared out at the end of the night.
Does this mean there is potentially a lot of undeclared income in the catering sector?
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Possibly.

Some restaurants lodge them with the nights takings and do pay them net of tax to their employees.
 
umop3p!sdn said:
It's been pointed out already on this thread that:
1. It's up to the trades person to declare their income and pay their taxes.
2. Cash payments do not automatically mean tax evasion.

Did you not read this points?
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It hasn't been pointed out, it's just your opinion.

Your opinon follows this scenario right? A tradesman offers you a great price, so great in fact you wonder how its worth his while, well then its great for you and its his business to comply with the law not yours. If you follow that logic then if you go down to your electrical store to buy a TV that retails at €500, but the guy working there says you can have it for €200 just pay him cash when he drops it into your car (no receipt needed).
To me it smells like something dodgy is going on, but to you it seems you are happy to turn a blind eye on the basis that you paid your money and its up to the guy to put it in the till.

There is a massive cash culture and most of us will admit to partaking in it, I just don't get why people feel the need to absolve themselves from any wrong doing on the defence of ignorance.
 
MrMan - does that mean that all cash payments mean that the recipient will definitely be evading tax?

Hint: It's a 'yes' or 'no' answer.
 
I assume the listing and final fees (if my item sells) I pay to eBay are taxable?
So they generate some money to the Gov's.
 
MrMan said:
There is a massive cash culture and most of us will admit to partaking in it, I just don't get why people feel the need to absolve themselves from any wrong doing on the defence of ignorance.
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Better put than I could. I'm not saying I'm not part of it either but I find many peoples attitude to those that evade tax on a large scale hypocritical.
 
umop3p!sdn said:
MrMan - does that mean that all cash payments mean that the recipient will definitely be evading tax?

Hint: It's a 'yes' or 'no' answer.
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I was aiming more towards point no.1, but well done on avoiding the point that actually shows a huge hole in your argument.
 
Its really simple,if someone gives you a price of say 5.000e to do a particular job,and then say they will do it for 3.000e cash,what exactly do you think they are cutting back on?

To say,its none of my buissness,to say ,its not up to me to enforce them paying tax etc..is another way of saying I know they are evading tax,but Im choosing to ignore that..because Im saving money.

If you recieve stolen goods ,its not just the thief that is guilty,its the reciever also..
 
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