Opinion and Discussion: Household Charge.

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dereko1969 said:
It's going to be less than €2 a week, no new tax is nice but put it in perspective, it's a glass of beer a week!

I'm sure we'll have the numpties in PbP and the Socialist Party trying to rile up the masses into a non-payment campaign which will work as successfully as all their other hair-brained student union style schemes.

What a load of fuss about nothing.
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Assuming you are serious, I see the following issues:
1. As mentioned above, this is just the start. In the UK, this charge is now typically in the thousands.
2. The money I will be forced to pay will be given to people that are far, far richer than I am.
3. This is just one extra charge. Don't forget to take into consideration all the other multitude of taxes and charges in Ireland. VAT increase, property tax, cuts etc.... It all adds up. More than a glass of beer.
 
umop3p!sdn said:
Assuming you are serious, I see the following issues:
1. As mentioned above, this is just the start. In the UK, this charge is now typically in the thousands.
2. The money I will be forced to pay will be given to people that are far, far richer than I am.
3. This is just one extra charge. Don't forget to take into consideration all the other multitude of taxes and charges in Ireland. VAT increase, property tax, cuts etc.... It all adds up. More than a glass of beer.
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I'm very serious.
The question was will people not pay "this" tax - ie the €100, this is not a council tax, it may increase in future, i'll reserve judgement if it hits a much higher level.
With regard to 2. The money will go into the Local Government fund so how you can say it's going to richer people is beyond me.
With regard to 3. That's not what this thread it about.

My point still stands, it's very small beer literally.
 
Penalties will apply

The liability date will be 1 January in 2012 and subsequent years and households not availing of instalment arrangements will have three months to pay. Late payment penalties and late payment interest of 1% per month or part thereof will apply thereafter.

Late payment fees, calculated as follows, will apply in the case of a household charge paid not
  • later than 6 months after the due date, 10 per cent of the amount outstanding,
  • later than 6 months and not later than 12 months after the due date, 20 per cent of the amount outstanding,
  • or later than 12 months after the due date, 30 per cent of the amount outstanding.
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Costs will add up very quickly.

Marion
 
ajapale said:
My reading of the bill:

4.4.b provides for a waiver for those living in unfinished housing estates.

5. provides for a list to be maintained by the minister of such unfinished estates. The minister can only put such estates on the list that meet criteria a)- h).

aj
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This is my understanding of the provisions of the Bill.

So, no loophole! It provision is for a waiver for unfinished housing estates - these estates are those on a list to be maintained by the minister according to the points a) - b)
 
tosullivan said:
Can anyone clarify then if payment is paid on this if?

a) Your house is part of a housing estate that has not been taken over by the local authority

b) your house is part of a development that is not fully finished and has not been taken over by the local authority and is still in the hands of the developer who has walked away and hasnt been near the place in over 3yrs
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a) you pay unless its on the ministers list of unfinished estates.

b)you have a waiver providing your estate is on the Ministers list.

(this is based on my reading of the Bill)
 
ajapale said:
a) you pay unless its on the ministers list of unfinished estates.

b)you have a waiver providing your estate is on the Ministers list.

(this is based on my reading of the Bill)
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Is this list of unfinished estates freely available?
 
(5) The Minister shall not prescribe a list for the purposes of this
section unless he or she is satisfied that each of the developments
specified in the list is incomplete to a substantial extent,

and the Minister shall, for the purpose of so satisfying himself or herself,
have regard to all relevant circumstances, including—

(a) the state of completion of roads, footpaths and public
lighting facilities in the development,
(b) the state of completion of piped water and sewerage facili
ties within the development,
(c) the state of completion of open spaces or similar amenities
within the development,
(d) the extent to which the development complies with the
terms of any planning permission applicable to it,
(e) the extent to which the development complies with the
provisions of the Building Control Acts 1990 and 2007,
(f) the provisions of the Local Government (Sanitary
Services) Act 1964 as it pertains to dangerous places and
dangerous structures within the meaning of that Act, 35
(g) the extent to which roads, open spaces, car parks, sewers,
watermains, drains or other public facilities in the
development have been taken in charge by the local authority
concerned, and
(h) where there is an agreement with the local authority con
cerned relating to the maintenance of roads, open spaces,
car parks, sewers, watermains, drains or other public
facilities in the development, the extent to which there
has been compliance with the conditions for maintenance
under the agreement.
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My understanding of the Bill is that such a list does not yet exist, the section goes on to state the circumstances in which a certain development must be excluded by the Minister. Its a weird negative phrasing.

Such developments must be incomplete to a substantial extent, and the Minister must have regard to all relevant circumstances, including—(a) to (h).

I think its fair to call this the "Ghost Estates" Waiver.
 
It will be a charge on the property and if unpaid they will get in including penalties when property is to be sold.

It will apply even where estates have not fully been taken in charge by a Local Authority

It is a temporary measure pending its replacement by a Property Tax

The €100 will increase in line with the CPI

The return and information they obtain through its payment will facilitate the future Property Tax
 
What about estates that will never be taken in charge by the local authority - as in, managed estates where the residents pay management fees and the estate is considered private property?
 
I wish the vast majority of this tax went to the areas where it was collected. At least then you might see something in return for it.
 
One of the reason given for levying this tax is to bring us into line with the rest of europe. Uk Council tax and french Taxe d'Habitation is paid by the occupier of the property. This is not necessarily the owner. Does anyone know what is the situation regarding propery tax in other EU countries
 
I think people will pay it, but like firefly I would like to see it go directly into the local council area or whatever, and we should be able to discern how it is spent. But, like many of the charges and hikes it will go to pay-off debt, thanks again Anglo, the ECB and the whole darn lot of em.
 
truthseeker said:
What about estates that will never be taken in charge by the local authority - as in, managed estates where the residents pay management fees and the estate is considered private property?
Click to expand...

As far as I can make out such properties are not exempt from the provisions of the Bill.
 
Will the new tax/charge be paid online like the NPPR? What about households that don't have access to or experience of computers/internet - will there be a provision for them to pay at the post office or whatever?

Some people might expect an invoice or bill for this, and if they don't get it and don't go online, could accrue penalties quite quickly.
 
It's fine to say its just the cost of a glass of beer but that depends on what you would have spent that €2 p.w. on and mine certainly would not go on beer. It also depends on what percentage of your weekly income that is, to someone on 188 p.w welfare that €2 is needed for other things. Fine if you're working with a reasonable wage but gross that up a percentage of your existing income, it then just comes out of your discretionary spending surplus I presume but for many many people in this country this minute there is no surplus.
 
As I understand it, this flat-rate charge is a temporary measure until some more structured and balanced property tax is brought in. The new tax will be in some way proportional to the size/value/cost of the property.
 
I have to say that as an Englishman in Ireland, the idea of there being no property tax here always used to surprise me. That and water rates as well.

I paid £100 a month for my one bed flat in England and no property charges at all here on my larger, more comfortable house. But this ignores a major point, that is in England you are paying that money for your local services: Leisure Centres, school books, bin collections, and so on.

The difference here is that this tax is now on top of many individual charges already paid by everybody, and that's why there is such opposition. So the term "coming into line with Europe" only looks like it will work one way - Charging the extra tax but not offering the services in return.

As firefly has said above - If this tax is charged and is goes where it is supposed to, then we will see a return and I will be happy to pay.
 
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