Ombudsman to adjudicate on prevailing rate cases "shortly"

Brendan Burgess

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Pearse at Oireachtas Finance Committee

Have you adjudicated on the prevailing rate issue yet. Either by mediation or by adjudication.

Ger Deering
Not yet. But we will be reaching decisions on these shortly.

Pearse
These are cohorts. What do you mean by "shortly"? Before Xmas?

Deering.
It should be only a matter of weeks.

Pearse
What about publication?

How quickly will you be publishing?

Deering
They will see the full decision. Hopefully January.

We have to wait 35 days for them to appeal.

We will put out the decisions quarterly after that.
 

zxcvbnm

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Wow - so does that mean for any one in the prevailing rate cohort, even if they have not appealed to the ombudsman themselves on this issue, the decision will apply to them (based on the fact the ombudsman recently said as much as far as I understood?)
 

Brendan Burgess

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It's not as simple as that.

The Ombudsman said today that he would expect the lenders to apply the principles of any decisions to other cases, but he has no power to direct them to do so.

He also said that he brings them to the attention of the Central Bank.

The Central Bank said something similar.

So, I would expect that if the Ombudsman upholds a case e.g. the ptsb prevailing rate issue

1) ptsb may argue that the finding was due to the specific circumstances of that case and had no wider application
2) The Central Bank might well back up ptsb in this

So we would have to publicise the decision widely to get everyone to make a complaint on the issue.

Or ptsb might bite the bullet and just reopen their tracker review.

or the Central Bank might tell them to do so.

No one knows.

Brendan
 

zxcvbnm

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Ok. Thanks Brendan. Although surely the ombudsman will try to initially resolve a case where no unique circumstance apply and has as wide an application as possible.

And I’d like to think that if the ombudsman rules against the banks that the central bank would feel morally obliged quick smart to instruct banks to pay on the basis of ombudsman’s decision. But maybe I’m being overly optimistic.

By the way - does he mean all prevailing rate cohorts will be decided by January ?

EDIT Presumabky the central bank does have the authority to make banks pay up should the ombudsman side with the cohorts?
 
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Johnc6

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I missed the call unfortunately, was Pearse Doherty more specific or was he talking about all Banks? For example, do you think it includes the KBC customers who started on fixed reverting to Prevailing Variable Rate?
 

Brendan Burgess

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I can only repeat what was actually said.

Pearse at Oireachtas Finance Committee

Have you adjudicated on the prevailing rate issue yet. Either by mediation or by adjudication.

Ger Deering
Not yet. But we will be reaching decisions on these shortly.


And I was taking it down as they spoke. He did not name any lenders. So I have no idea whether it is some or all.

I know that at least one AIB case is at the adjudication stage.

I don't know the status of the others.
 

Brendan Burgess

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Presumabky the central bank does have the authority to make banks pay up should the ombudsman side with the cohorts?
No, it does not have that authority.

It can encourage and it can threaten, but it can't legally force the banks to redress any customers.

Brendan
 

B26354

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I can only repeat what was actually said.

Pearse at Oireachtas Finance Committee

Have you adjudicated on the prevailing rate issue yet. Either by mediation or by adjudication.

Ger Deering
Not yet. But we will be reaching decisions on these shortly.


And I was taking it down as they spoke. He did not name any lenders. So I have no idea whether it is some or all.

I know that at least one AIB case is at the adjudication stage.

I don't know the status of the others.
Decisions on EBS variable base cases are about to be made in coming weeks too
 

Johnc6

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I can only repeat what was actually said.

Pearse at Oireachtas Finance Committee

Have you adjudicated on the prevailing rate issue yet. Either by mediation or by adjudication.

Ger Deering
Not yet. But we will be reaching decisions on these shortly.


And I was taking it down as they spoke. He did not name any lenders. So I have no idea whether it is some or all.

I know that at least one AIB case is at the adjudication stage.

I don't know the status of the others.
Thanks Brendan
 

zxcvbnm

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No, it does not have that authority.

It can encourage and it can threaten, but it can't legally force the banks to redress any customers.

Brendan
Ok. In that case what power does the ombudsman have? I lost an appeal for additional compensation just this week with the tracker panel in relation to properties not involving prevailing rate. I was planning on going to the ombudsman next. Can he make the bank pay out more to me if he sides with me? Or is he equally powerless in that scenario ?
 

Brendan Burgess

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The role of the Ombudsman is to hear individual cases and make adjudications - so that is where you should go.

Alternatively the court could hear your case.

The Central Bank has no role in individual complaints. Nor should it have. It pushed its powers to the limit in encouraging the lenders to give trackers or compensation to 40,000 customers but they could all have refused and forced the customers to take them to the Ombudsman or court.

Brendan
 

coolaboola12

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well i presume if the ombudsman votes in favour of the mortgage holders in the prevailing rate cases that it has and if AIB dont voluntarily resolve the issue for ALL the cohort then its simple a matter of everyone opening a case with the ombudsman and waiting for the same decision again .....

Might take time but if precedent was set then i presume everyone who goes to ombudsman will get same verdict as long as the circumstances are the same
 

Suz2015

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Hi All, just wondering if anyone has submitted a PTSB Prevailing Rate Case to the Ombudsman?
 

Brendan Burgess

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Brendan Burgess

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There are a few stages
1) Issuing the provisional decision to the borrower and the bank - this is private.
2) Confirming that decision 30 days later
3) Waiting 35 days for either side to appeal to the High Court
4) Publishing that decision so that everyone can see it.

I thought that Stage 4) would be in January, so the other stages would have had to be much earlier.

I have not heard of any provisional decisions being made yet. If they have not, then publication is, at the very minimum, two months away.

Brendan
 

zxcvbnm

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332
Ah. Ok. Well surely / hopefully it won’t be too far away given he stated as much last month.

So is the expectation the bank would appeal to the high court as per your step 3 should the decision go against them? Or can we expect them to fall in line with the ombudsman’s decision?
 
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