Occupational supplementary pension, ARF and "self employment"

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nephster

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Hi all (and *especially* @S class),
I'm one of the people contemplating doing the "convert to ARF, draw down €5K per year, bump up COAP via 52 reckonable Class S" dance. I'm still at least 10 years away from retirement so just attempting to get my ducks in a row.
I will be entitled to a public sector pension from 60 and with that, an occupational supplementary pension. BUT, from something I read here recently (and confirmed in Circular 12/2024), "the individual must not be engaged in full-time paid employment, and the individual must not be self-employed".
So my quick question is, is the ARF drawdown seen as "self employment" in this context for the purposes of allowing or not allowing the OSP to be claimed?? Sometimes it seems to be treated like true self-employed income, but othertimes not, so I'm obviously hoping for the latter in this case.
 
No experience of this but I wonder if, strategically it would make sense to apply for and be approved for the supplementary pension before starting to draw an income from the ARF.
 
No experience of this but I wonder if, strategically it would make sense to apply for and be approved for the supplementary pension before starting to draw an income from the ARF.
Click to expand...
Yes, I think that's the sequence anyway as a matter of practicality but you have to apply for the OSP each year (hence, I imagine you apply for the OSP as soon as you retire or the year starts, and drawdown the ARF at leisure). And I think we are starting to hear tales (so far, fairly anecdotal) of various payments in this space being clawed back by Revenue.
Would be great to hear from someone who is actually claiming an OSP and making ARF drawdowns. That should answer my question :)
 
As S Class has mentioned on another forum, this is only a potential problem if your combined income subject to Class S (including an ARF) is more than €5k.
If your only income potentially liable to Class S is an ARF and the drawdown is less €5k then there is no S Class liability (you are therefore not deemed to be self employed) and can apply to DSP for a refund of any S Class deduction made by your ARF provider.
An argument could also made that an ARF (under or over €5k) is not a form of self employment as it is subject to to a PAYE deduction and you can assign part of your PAYE tax credit to the ARF! Revenue would notify the ARF provider accordingly who is considered your 'employer' in this regard.
 
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