Obtaining a Work Permit

M

my2leftfeet

Guest
Does anyone have any experience of obtaining work permits? I see that Clerical and Administrative positions are ineligible - I am looking for suggestions as to alternative but closely linked category to submit under.
 
Not sure if you're only looking for first hand experience, which I don't have, but perhaps might be of help?
 
Thanks Clubman. I want to offer a job to a person who requires a work permit. She has one with her existing employer [in Ireland] but if she leaves the job the permit expires. When I try to apply for one I am told that the particular category of job is ineligible for work permit. What I really need to know is whether there is a way around this.
 
When I try to apply for one I am told that the particular category of job is ineligible for work permit.

Surely if the job is ineligible for a work permit employee then, short of fraud, that's that?

Occupations that are currently ineligible for work permits (after April, 2004)

The Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, following consultation with FÁS, will announce, on a quarterly basis, occupational sectors that are considered ineligible for work permits. Note - the following list has not changed since April, 2004 and remains in force until further announcements by the Department.

These occupations are:

<!--EZCODE LIST START--><ul><li>Clerical and administrative staff</li><li>General labourers and builders</li><li>Operator and production staff</li><li>Sales Staff (including retail sales, sales representatives and Management/Supervisory/ Specialist Sales)</li><li>Transport staff, including drivers - bus, coach, car, taxi, fork lift, (excluding international HGV and articulated drivers) - international.</li><li>Child care workers, including nursery/crèche workers, child minders/nannies</li><li>Hotel, tourism and catering reception staff and barpersons</li><li>Craft workers and apprentice/trainee craft workers, including bookbinders, bricklayers, cabinet makers, carpenters/joiners, carton makers, fitters - construction plant, electricians, instrumentation craftspeople, fitters, tilers - floor/wall, mechanics - heavy vehicles, metal fabricators, mechanics - motor, originators, painters and decorators, plumbers, printers, engineers - refrigeration, sheet metal workers, tool makers, vehicle body repairers, machinists - wood (excluding plasterers and aircraft mechanic/engineers)</li></ul><!--EZCODE LIST END-->
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I just love the that abounds on AAM. , you are spot-on. Give an EUer the position and get on with it, .<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->The great thing about hiring EUers is that if you intimidate, bully, discriminate, or otherwise glance sideways at one, you are in the Labour Relations Court, pronto. Not like those Asians, Yanks, Canucks, and ex-Soviets. Just wave their work permit overhead and presto! Instant submissiveness.
 
If it's a clerical or administrative positon, what is your motivation in trying to employ a non-EU person?

Although the word "fraud" might apply to some efforts to get around regultions, I wouldn't always consider it fraud. Some years ago, the American fiancée of a friend of mine was refused a work permit, which he considered stupid as there were so many Irish people emigrating to America. He adapted the description of her experience and qualifications, so that she got a work permit. I certainly don't consider it fraud.

Brendan
 
wrote -
<snip><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->adapted the description of her experience and qualifications<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--></snip>
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Either the bureaucrats in ETE were morons and could not establish that she possessed skills unavailable throughout the EU from her CV or your friend committed fraud by altering the facts.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->Your comment about Irish and their emmigration to America is of interest. Do you refer to the late 19th / early 20th century? Or the Morrison and Donnelly visas? Are you suggesting that Ireland should confer citizenship on any American that applies?
 
your friend committed fraud by altering the facts
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That would depend on whether the description was still accurate, post-alteration.
 
Dunno, , your mincing about so much makes me uncomfortable.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->We'd better begin researching to find another location besides the EU and the USA when (presuming here) under-28s from America are more highly educated/trained/talented/skilled than any EU national. Any work permits issued for professions other than university-level project researcher, mushroom-picking, and spud-digging are garnered through fraud and deception. Failing to recognise that as such will qualify one for a tax exemption as being blind.
 
The only mincing I do involves Superquinn's best round steak, some garlic & some spring onion. You assume that the alteration to the work permit request involves fraud. I merely pointed out that you make a substantial assumption here - It may have been possible to rephrase the permit request while still maintain accuracy and not involve fraud.
 
You've missed twice now, .<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--> wrote -
<snip><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->It may have been possible to rephrase the permit request<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--></snip>
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That is not possible. The law, which many choose to disregard when it suits, only provides for work permits to be issued to employers. Not Jane Bloggs. So the position requirements would need amending to suit the CV of the applicant. And had the law been followed, the requirements would be well-known prior to the non-EUer applying.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->Fraud? You decide. I have. It is simply wrong.
 
I would tend towards Max Hopper's view that there is probably little or no legitimate wiggle room when it comes to statutory rules applicable to this and other situations. I get nervous when people state or insinuate that that one can have some sort of a la carte attitude to legislation in this and other contexts.
 
Here's a suggestion for future reference, Max. When someone states an opinion with which you disagree, that does not necessarily mean that they have 'missed it'. I didn't miss it - I get it.

There are possible amendments to a work permit form that would involve fraud, and there are possible amendments to a work permit form that would not involve fraud. It depends on what was changed.
 
Care to back this up, ?
<snip><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->there are possible amendments to a work permit form that would not involve fraud.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--></snip>
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And I maintain that you are mincing about.
 
For example, adding a comma which was omitted in the original application would not constitute fraud. I'm sure you can develop the basic idea from there to understand what other kinds of changes could be made that would not constitute fraud.
 
Have you a clue as to how absurd your explanation is?
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adding a comma which was omitted in the original application​
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If at all possible, do elaborate on how the amendment of a comma to a work permit application will alter the position's requirements such that the ETE would reconsider the applicant.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->Requirements:<!--EZCODE LIST START--><ul><li>Born in month of July and year of 1976</li><li>Must have graduated from preparatory school in the state of Connecticut</li><li>Must have attend and graduated from a university based in Illinois (ca. 1998)</li><li>GPA between 3.42 and 3.45</li><li>Must have majored in Advanced Fingerpainting with a minor in Breathing for Credit</li></ul><!--EZCODE LIST END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->Yeah, she'll get the job, now (but where is the comma?).
 
Hi Max - We know from your previous posts that you are not short on brain power. I know that you are more than capable of taking the example which I gave and using it to develop a train of thought as to how one could amend a work permit application, while still keeping it accurate and improve the chances of approval. Life is too short for me to hand-hold you through this thought process, step by step.
 
Uhh, not a runner, .<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->You've backpedalled and now you are on the spot for supporting cute hoorism.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->We'll wait for your justification (and something about commas, too if you please, because I am feeling a bit 'tick' today).
 
Clubman said:
I get nervous when people state or insinuate that that one can have some sort of a la carte attitude to legislation in this and other contexts.

If an insurance broker cashs his client's cheque and uses the money for his own purposes that's fraud with a capital F.

A guy goes to work in America for three years. While there, he falls in love and gets engaged to an American girl. She returns to Ireland with him and she applies for a work permit. They look up the list of jobs drawn up by Mary Harney and say, '"sorry you are not on the list, you can't work in Ireland"
She is a dynamic enthusiastic worker ( a rare enough entity - as rare as a good, enthusiastic employer) who has a good reason for being in Ireland. An employer friend of hers has a job which he is finding it difficult to get someone for. She stretches her CV and he stretches the job spec. She gets the job. They get married and they all live happily ever after...

I do appreciate your nervousness about a la carte interpretations of the law, but I think there are certain times where it is understandable. I don't think I would jail either for it.

Brendan
 
Exxxxxxxxxxxxxxxcuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse ME!<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->I missed the fine legal point of inconvenience.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->Could your use of extenuating circumstances be applied to the spouses of Fillipino nurses? Uhh, Ms. Harney and Mam O'Rourke said... no. Or asylum-seekers? Or any other non-EU national that happens to like living in Ireland?<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->Don't get me wrong, , I'm only after parity and the rule of law here. Neither of which your friend supported by his action.
 
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