NPPR - no cert - what to do??

Juliekeenan

New Member
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4
Hi - would anyone have advice. We are trying to sell our house however when we bought the house in 2012 our solicitor didn’t request an NPPR cert. The house was empty for the previous few years and we cannot now get the cert or confirmation that there is nothing owing for the years prior to us living there. It has held up our house sale as purchaser requires it. It is a large housing estate - the agents are still selling here and building houses but have advised they can’t help. We were wondering if anyone has been through this before and could advise. Thank you!!
 

peteb

Registered User
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1,726
Can't your solicitor advise you here? Isn't that his role at this stage?
 

NoRegretsCoyote

Registered User
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3,166
The house was empty for the previous few years and we cannot now get the cert or confirmation that there is nothing owing for the years prior to us living there.
Can you try to contact the vendor from 2012 directly?

You can also pay the charge in arrears yourself. It's an awful lot of money but might be better than letting a sale fall through:

YEAR OF CHARGE
AMOUNT DUE
2009
€2070
2010
€1830
2011
€1470
2012
€1110
2013
€750
Total
€7230
 

Annie51

Registered User
Messages
116
We are trying to sell our house however when we bought the house in 2012
If you lived in the house from 2012 and 2013 then there would not be any NPPR due, but you would have to get a certificate stating that, I am not sure if it is from your local County County that you request it. The NPPR is due even if it is not lived in providing it is not your PPR.
As far as I know 2009 is wiped at this stage so that leaves 2010 and 2011 still due.

 

elcato

Moderator
Messages
3,658
For 12 and 13 you need to get an esb bill from that time. If you don't have any receipts you do so by requesting from your electricity providor. You need to fill in a form for exception from your local CC usually available online. You send it off to them with the receipts and they give you the cert. However I assume you have done this as your solicitor now would have advised this at the start.
 

Sunny

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4,217
You don't even need receipts. You can just sign a sworn declaration with your solicitor that you are not liable for 12 and 13. Not sure what you do for previous years when you didn't own the property. As said above liability for 2009 is gone now. Not sure when 2010 liability is due to expire. I would be surprised if this wasn't a common enough issue from properties bought and sold around that time when there was confusion about this charge. Your solicitor is best placed to advise.
 

NoRegretsCoyote

Registered User
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3,166
You don't even need receipts. You can just sign a sworn declaration with your solicitor that you are not liable for 12 and 13.

I needed an exemption for the sale of my late parents-in-law's house in 2017. Dublin City Council said that they needed utility bills to prove that they were were living there and I was able to pull them together.

Not sure if a sworn declaration is enough. I have read on AAM that some CCs are more relaxed than others.

@Juliekeenan You will be able to prove 2012 and 2013 yourself. Liability expires after 12 years so there will only be a cost for 2010 and 2011. This is only really an issue for the purchaser if they want to sell very soon, which is unlikely. After 2023 all liability will have disappeared and they will be free to sell.

Your solicitor should talk to theirs. A few hundred euros off the purchase price might be the simplest way to deal with this.
 

Sunny

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4,217
I needed an exemption for the sale of my late parents-in-law's house in 2017. Dublin City Council said that they needed utility bills to prove that they were were living there and I was able to pull them together.

Not sure if a sworn declaration is enough. I have read on AAM that some CCs are more relaxed than others.

@Juliekeenan You will be able to prove 2012 and 2013 yourself. Liability expires after 12 years so there will only be a cost for 2010 and 2011. This is only really an issue for the purchaser if they want to sell very soon, which is unlikely. After 2023 all liability will have disappeared and they will be free to sell.

Your solicitor should talk to theirs. A few hundred euros off the purchase price might be the simplest way to deal with this.

Well I know the sworn declaration is enough with Fingal and Dublin County Council. Any council asking for utility bills from 11 years ago is being unreasonable.
 

NoRegretsCoyote

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3,166
Well I know the sworn declaration is enough with Fingal and Dublin County Council.
My apologies, you are right.

Criteria have changed. Back in 2017 they insisted on bills.

If you were not liable for the NPPR charge and require a Letter of Exemption, please complete and return the Application and Statutory Declaration form. This form needs to be witnessed by a practicing solicitor, Peace Commissioner or Commissioner for Oaths.

Certificates of Discharge and Letters of Exemption currently issue within approx. 2 weeks of receipt of the request. Please allow enough time before close of sale as requests are dealt with on a first come first served basis.

I picked a random local authority (Donegal) though and the rules are indeed different:

Please note that utility bills, TV licence, House Insurance and Statutory Declarations are not sufficient to demonstrate that the property was the PPR of the owner during the 2010 -2013 NPPR Liability period
 

Juliekeenan

New Member
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4
Thank you guys for all your helpful comments!! So we need it for years before the house was purchased ie was still w builder.2009-2011.
House was unoccupied then. We’ve tried the receipts as suggested but no joy. Pleading with the co council tmw to see if they can help. Thx
 

Sarenco

Registered User
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6,891
So we need it for years before the house was purchased ie was still w builder.2009-2011.
House was unoccupied then
Newly constructed but unsold buildings which had never been used as dwellings and that formed part of the trading stock of a business were exempt from the NPPR.

Surely your solicitor could provide evidence to the purchaser's solicitor that you were the first purchasers of a newly built house?
 

Baby boomer

Registered User
Messages
364
Can you try to contact the vendor from 2012 directly?

You can also pay the charge in arrears yourself. It's an awful lot of money but might be better than letting a sale fall through:

YEAR OF CHARGE
AMOUNT DUE
2009
€2070
2010
€1830
2011
€1470
2012
€1110
2013
€750
Total
€7230
Note that the €2070 due for 2009 has now expired and is no longer due. All local authorities have been instructed not to accept payment for it. The charge on the property for 2009 is removed and is not a concern for the purchaser. The Law Society have advised solicitors that this has been confirmed to them by government.
https://www.lawsociety.ie/News/News/Stories/phased-expiry-of-nppr
The 2010 charge will expire on 31st March 2022, with 2011, 2012 and 2013 following at 12 month intervals.

Great to see the end of this anomalous tax and its utterly disproportionate penalties. :):)
 

Leo

Moderator
Messages
12,862
Well I know the sworn declaration is enough with Fingal and Dublin County Council. Any council asking for utility bills from 11 years ago is being unreasonable.
I sold in SDCC earlier this year and had to provide utility bills. The utilities have this under control and will send you what you need once your name matches the account.
 

Sunny

Registered User
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4,217
I sold in SDCC earlier this year and had to provide utility bills. The utilities have this under control and will send you what you need once your name matches the account.

Mad. My wife sold one property in Dublin City and I sold one in Fingal in the last year and neither of us required utility bills. Sworn declaration was considered sufficient and that is what it states on their website. I don't know why councils are asking for different things. I can't even tell you what utility company I was with 10 years ago......
 

Leo

Moderator
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12,862
Mad. My wife sold one property in Dublin City and I sold one in Fingal in the last year and neither of us required utility bills. Sworn declaration was considered sufficient and that is what it states on their website. I don't know why councils are asking for different things. I can't even tell you what utility company I was with 10 years ago......
I was able to get them, so I've no idea what the alternative would be but if some authorities are accepting them, you'd hope the others would follow suit.
 

Juliekeenan

New Member
Messages
4
I was able to get them, so I've no idea what the alternative would be but if some authorities are accepting them, you'd hope the others would follow suit.
Yes we got the exemption using bills for the years we have been living in the house but not for years it’s unoccupied prior to our purchase. Co council have actually been helpful so we’ve submitted something to purchasers solicitor and waiting to see if it’s accepted. Fingers crossed !!
 
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Juliekeenan

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4
Newly constructed but unsold buildings which had never been used as dwellings and that formed part of the trading stock of a business were exempt from the NPPR.

Surely your solicitor could provide evidence to the purchaser's solicitor that you were the first purchasers of a newly built house?
Good point - we have something from co council now but if it’s not accepted will try this!!
 
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