I see there is a forum in the main area entitled "Dealing with the Deficit", perhaps we can also have a forum called "Not Dealing with the Deficit" for people who would prefer to ignore the issue and bury their heads in the sand doing nothing until it all goes away of its own accord, perhaps Brian Cowan could write a Key Post for this new forum
Not Dealing with the Deficit
- Thread starter c00lcarl
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I would say unhelpful and unnecessary parsimony could fall under this.
It's really annoying me the amount of people who have been saying "Oooh I dunno...the recession..." as an excuse not to buy anything.
We're in a recession - great, let's all add to that by completely unnecessarily lowering consumer confidence.
Fair enough, have second thoughts about that new car/luxury holiday/ new suite - whatever, but this panicking is so unhelpful.
It's really annoying me the amount of people who have been saying "Oooh I dunno...the recession..." as an excuse not to buy anything.
We're in a recession - great, let's all add to that by completely unnecessarily lowering consumer confidence.
Fair enough, have second thoughts about that new car/luxury holiday/ new suite - whatever, but this panicking is so unhelpful.
I think I've made the point before that more than 4 out of every 5 people will not lose their job or suffer a significant fall in earnings (other than maybe bonus cuts or small tax increases). Why are people in secure jobs suddenly going all frugal? It'll only make the situation worse.
We should be increasing productivity and maintaining consumption at realistic levels.
And less not get all dramatic here, a 1% levy will not see you destitute. Only a handful of people could have their budgets that delicately balanced. Accept it an move on.
Same with OAPs on over €70k per year. I don't want to see your miserable face on bus shelters whining about having to take out your own medical insurance rather than get a free medical card. It'll only cost you a few hundred, in any case you'll still be effectively subsidised thanks to community rating.
We should be increasing productivity and maintaining consumption at realistic levels.
And less not get all dramatic here, a 1% levy will not see you destitute. Only a handful of people could have their budgets that delicately balanced. Accept it an move on.
Same with OAPs on over €70k per year. I don't want to see your miserable face on bus shelters whining about having to take out your own medical insurance rather than get a free medical card. It'll only cost you a few hundred, in any case you'll still be effectively subsidised thanks to community rating.
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z103
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Accepting your figures for the moment;
People in 'secure' jobs (whatever that means) are probably worried that they will be the one in five that does lose their job.
We hear about the big firms letting 100s go, but there are also a huge number of small companies letting one or two people go. These don't make the headlines.
Whats a secure job? Financial Services? Nope. Hospitality Industry? Nope. Manufacturing? Nope. Services Industry? Nope. Construction? Nope
The problem isn't just the number of job losses, it's that people don't know where the next lot of job losses are going to be and are fearful. For good reason as well.
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One thing for sure is that there will be a lot more job losses if as individuals we sit on our cash rather than spend it.
In the normal run of things it's all good , anything we save on deposit is lent to someone else who will spend it. Not now though, the banks will just build up their own solvency in the same way individuals are doing
In the normal run of things it's all good , anything we save on deposit is lent to someone else who will spend it. Not now though, the banks will just build up their own solvency in the same way individuals are doing
Actually David Begg could also write a key post for this forum after his comments today on the 3.5% pay increase that ESB have awarded its workers, Brian Cowans approach is to ignore the problem, David Beggs approach is to keep increasing already inflated salaries on average over twice that of the average industrial wage
But that is the problem, the fear factor is gripping everybody now and once everyone stops spending then the world goes to pot. Of course its true that if we all continued spending like we have been doing for the last decade then there would be no lay-offs as the likes of Honda, Dell, Waterford Glass etc would be raking in plenty of money, and would be able to employ more. Its a circle, but can be a vicious when it goes bad.
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rabbit
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I do not know about that. A lot of people are self employed and many have suffered major cuts already, depending on the sector.
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rmelly
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Were people spending their money, or were they spending their banks money, whether it be car loans, equity release, credit cards etc?
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rmelly
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I think you're missing the bigger picture. Despite the headline grabbing sales or half price corn flakes, inflation on goods and services continued for most of last year. Other services continue to go up e.g. health & car insurance. At the same time many of the people not losing their jobs face pay cuts or pay freezes.
Overall the average employed person is in a worse situation than they were in a year ago, even without a pay cut or the 2009 tax changes. It may only be a few percent, but for people with large mortgages a few % can be significant.
Also remember that there are plenty of people living month to month, who have only now realised they have nothing to fall back on if they lose their job or have their hours or salary cut. These people are presumably now saving what they can by curtailing spending.
Note: I'm ignoring the impact of mortgage interest rate decrease because I don't think anyone would be foolish enough to spend this money.
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rabbit
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Oil is dowm, petrol down, mortgages down. Most goods imported from stg area now down a bit at least. People can buy on line from UK or go up north for their shopping where not. Most shops / service providers are cutting their prices, some are going out of business.
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rmelly
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Hasn't reduced my electricity costs. Plus gas is well up which has been used to justify ESB prices.
By how much? I've noticed prices creep up since the new year, and didn't the government increase the duty in the budget. Average price now 99.9c versus 116.9c in Feb 08.
Plus car tax is up and car insurance is expected to rise to counter the losses insurers made investing the premiums.
My yearly DART ticket increased over 10%.
I haven't seen this to be the case - maybe BEFORE the irish retailer adds their markup.
Many sites won't ship to Ireland because of the WEEE regulation (even for items like an ipod case) - plus this is no different than last year anyway. There would be a significant % of the population who can't avail of either of these suggestions based on location, age, no transport, no time, no broadband coverage etc.
Disagree - they may be cutting prices on headline items and on sale stock, but not across the board. I stand corrected if you have evidence of this.
UPC price increased in Jan.
AA price increased versus what I paid last year.
Quinn Healthcare had a significant increase.
As I mentioned above, car tax, and car insurance.
Lets not forget that a reduction in the current inflation only means that prices aren't increasing by the same rate as before.
In that case I'm pretty foolish.
I do think it's true that there's a widespread fear out there about pay cuts, job losses and large debts and this is only natural.
Also, fair enough we should all save a few quid for the rainy day and cut back on our credit card debts, etc
My point continues to be that there are many in safe jobs who have been sensible in terms of debts and savings. Goods and services are more affordable now than they have been in years, mortgage costs are down, petrol costs are down.
There's a whole lot of people who can easily maintain their consumption levels and accomodate the tax increases or pay cuts required to get the country moving. This fact should not be ignored or drowned out by the rush of people declaring "Hands off my cash" to the government
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rmelly
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I thought this was considered part of the problem, not part of the solution?
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rmelly
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Is there evidence of this? Has the cost of everyday items fallen? Bread, a chicken, a bag of potatoes, toothpaste, toilet paper?
And I don't mean Dunnes or Supervalu having a one week BOGOF or 50% extra free offer - are there sustained price cuts for a product type e.g. bread across all brands and all retailers?
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