Nonsense reports about poverty

This is yet another report extrapolated from the Survey on Income and Living Conditions (SILC) figures published by the CSO last March.

I have seen the most outrageous claims based on SILC figures.

Regardless of how much weighting and other measures are applied to it, the raw data collected in these surveys is unreliable.
 
In fairness, is it the Childrens Rights Alliance making claims about shoes or the IT taking a number and then extrapolating that into a claim to generate a headline?

The CRA press release actually acknowledges some progress on child poverty in certain areas

Budget 2025 is this Government’s last opportunity to show they are serious about ending child poverty - Children's Rights Alliance

Budget 2025 is this Government’s last opportunity to show they are serious about ending child poverty
childrensrights.ie childrensrights.ie
 
thedaddyman said:
In fairness, is it the Childrens Rights Alliance making claims about shoes or the IT taking a number and then extrapolating that into a claim to generate a headline?
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The IT referred to the Child Poverty Monitor 2024, published by the Children’s Rights Alliance - see bottom of the left column on page 5, which states:

“The most recent Survey of Income and Living Conditions (SILC) revealed that there was an increase in the number of children experiencing deprivation in 2023 (260,773) compared to 2022 (229,091). This means that one-in-five children – 260,7731 – were living in households unable to afford goods and services which are considered the norm for society such as being unable to afford a new pair of shoes for a child or not being able to replace broken furniture.”
 
Sophrosyne said:
The IT referred to the Child Poverty Monitor 2024, published by the Children’s Rights Alliance - see bottom of the left column on page 5, which states:

“The most recent Survey of Income and Living Conditions (SILC) revealed that there was an increase in the number of children experiencing deprivation in 2023 (260,773) compared to 2022 (229,091). This means that one-in-five children – 260,7731 – were living in households unable to afford goods and services which are considered the norm for society such as being unable to afford a new pair of shoes for a child or not being able to replace broken furniture.”
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I simply do not believe that. There are sufficient social transfers so that no child is going without suitable shoes due to economic reasons.
 
Sophrosyne said:
The IT referred to the Child Poverty Monitor 2024, published by the Children’s Rights Alliance - see bottom of the left column on page 5, which states:

“The most recent Survey of Income and Living Conditions (SILC) revealed that there was an increase in the number of children experiencing deprivation in 2023 (260,773) compared to 2022 (229,091). This means that one-in-five children – 260,7731 – were living in households unable to afford goods and services which are considered the norm for society such as being unable to afford a new pair of shoes for a child or not being able to replace broken furniture.”
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Does furniture really break that often? I had a sofa with a dodgy leg once. I repaired it myself (and I'm very limited when it comes to DIY), but apart from that anything I buy tends to last.
 
My kids would have been used to wearing hand me down clothes from my wife's sisters kids, including shoes.
We in turn passed them on to my sisters kids or neighbours kids.
I've bought football boots for the young lad on adverts for a tenner ( adidas no real wear) and at a quick glance on adverts today I see dozens of pairs of shoes from a fiver to twenty quid.
No one can be that stuck that they couldnt pony up a fiver for kids shoes.
 
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Sophrosyne said:
This means that one-in-five children – 260,7731 – were living in households unable to afford goods and services which are considered the norm for society such as being unable to afford a new pair of shoes for a child or not being able to replace broken furniture.”
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While the methodology is published, I couldn't find the questions asked. It'd be interesting to see what question or questions were behind that finding.
 
Purple said:
I simply do not believe that. There are sufficient social transfers so that no child is going without suitable shoes due to economic reasons.
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description is new shoes, not suitable shoes. Main streets of most towns are covered in 2nd hand and charity shops and a lot of people in them are not there because of a desire to be green or recycle/upcycle old clothes etc etc

Any local teacher I know would almost all confirm kids going to school with no breakfast. It's not always as simple as poverty. social and family issues, substance abuse but sad to say, there are people really struggling out there
 
Leo said:
While the methodology is published, I couldn't find the questions asked. It'd be interesting to see what question or questions were behind that finding.
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This was the only one I could find. It is the 2022 Irish questionnaire.

Questionnaires for all countries, up to 2022, can be found here.

I didn’t compare questionnaires.

We can see that much of the data collected is not validated. There are a lot of approximations.
 
thedaddyman said:
description is new shoes, not suitable shoes. Main streets of most towns are covered in 2nd hand and charity shops and a lot of people in them are not there because of a desire to be green or recycle/upcycle old clothes etc etc

Any local teacher I know would almost all confirm kids going to school with no breakfast. It's not always as simple as poverty. social and family issues, substance abuse but sad to say, there are people really struggling out there
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I don't doubt that children go to school without having had breakfast. There are numerous reasons for that but lack of financial resources is not one of them. Not for one child in this country.

My children sometimes went to school without having had breakfast. That's because they don't get up in time to have it. 1.5Kg of porridge oats is around €1.20 in Lidl. That's provide breakfast to a family of 4 for a week. Even made using milk that's well under 10 cent a portion.

Can we stop pretending that money is the root cause of social deprivation?
Can we stop pretending that social deprivation is a symptom of poverty when in fact the opposite is the case?
 
It is so obviously nonsense the people preparing the report summary \ headline are detached both from the reality of the people they are taking submissions from and any public audience of the report.
 
I'd really love if a radio presenter went hard in at these reports and properly challenge the promoters on the figures and how a VERY generous social welfare system, combined with near full employment and a minimum wage of €12.70, free school transport, free school books, clothing allowance and other benefits can see anyone in poverty in this country.

There are certainly social issues and issues around managing children and budgets. But throwing more money in the hope that it will solve the social and educational issues is not the answer.
 
Deprivation is defined in the SILC as not being able to afford two of the following:

Deprivation items​

Households that are excluded and marginalised from consuming goods and services which are considered the norm for other people in society, due to an inability to afford them, are considered to be deprived. The identification of the marginalised or deprived is currently achieved on the basis of a set of eleven basic deprivation indicators:

  1. Without heating at some stage in the last year
  2. Unable to afford a morning, afternoon, or evening out in last fortnight
  3. Unable to afford two pairs of properly fitting shoes in good condition that are suitable for daily activities
  4. Unable to afford a roast once a week
  5. Unable to afford a meal with meat, chicken, fish, or vegetarian equivalent every second day
  6. Unable to afford new (not second-hand) clothes
  7. Unable to afford a warm waterproof coat
  8. Unable to afford to keep the home adequately warm
  9. Unable to afford to replace any worn out furniture
  10. Unable to afford to have family or friends for a drink or a meal once a month
  11. Unable to afford to buy presents for family or friends at least once a year
 
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