Night saver Smart meter and air to water heat pump

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Still looking at costs for electricity as contract date up on our Smart meter. We received Annual Review e-mail from Electric Ireland and it appears to show that we might possibly benefit from a Night Saver meter as we have an air to water heat pump. Not sure how much the heating comes on and off during the night but it would definitely be the most expensive item on our Energy by Appliance breakdown with El Irl. Might check with service guy and see what he says. The outside temperature appears to play a bigger part in it rather than time settings?

Just wondering about getting a Night Saver meter because the annual charge is so high at €396.89 :confused: as compared to €302.92 which appears to be the standard with El Irl. If you get a Night Saver meter are you stuck with it from now on or is it possible to revert back?
 
If youre already on a smart tarriff, it is apparently, very difficult to switch from that,to a day/night meter, but some have managed to do it.

For the heat pump, you can set a timer on this, to only heat the water during the night rate hours, typically most people with this setup, have the water heated, before morning showers. You can also limit the upper temperature, we use 50 degrees C, and this has worked out fine. Its pointless, heating water to a temperature above that, if it is not being used. The only time we’ve been caught out is where we have say 2 friends staying, and extra showers etc. you can manually over-ride where required, we don’t have any electric showers.

For house heating, find a temperature that suits yee, and set that. This depends on personal preference, and the insulation level and BER of the house. It tends to come on occasionally to maintain temperature's at night, and more frequently on cold winter nights.

During cold nights, the heat pump automatically comes on and goes into “antifreeze” mode, this uses bare minimum power, and significantly less, than when it is actually heating the house, i could be wrong but my understanding is, this is just keeping the external unit, above a minimum temperture.

To benefit fully, from a day/night meter, you also need to change some habits, and time washing machines/dryers/dishwashers, to finish before the night rate ends. We also changed appliances over time, to efficient rated ones, and all bulbs changed to low wattage LED’s, and get better at switching off things, rather than leave them on standby, cumulatively, these items, all add up.

50% usage on night rate is relatively easily achievable. We have an EV also, so its higher, but expect it to go to more than 60 % this summer, as the heating not in use, as tempertures rise.

If you actively make some habit changes, a day/night meter is difficult to beat, i’ve run the numbers a number of times, and makes sense for us, but is largely dependant on each individual household setup. The higher annual standing charge is more than compensated for ourselves, assuming you can move 50 % + to night rate.


The 9 hours on a much cheaper rate, means it is the most practical setup, by far, for an EV, as you are not plugging in/out every single night to avail of a 2 to 3 hour low rate, which is what is only on offer on smart rate plans.

Solar PV, is also an option to consider as well, we don’t have this currently, allthough i have got a quote last year, and thought the payback was a little too long, but keeping an eye on this also.
 
Hi fayf,

Thanks very much for that informative post. We will have to digest all of it and see if it would suit our household. Most of our usage is during the day except for the heating but, maybe as you say, we could move that around. We don't have an EV so would probably lose out on that aspect.

Thanks again.
 
We have heat pump in well insulated new build with day/night meter. Slightly over half our usage is nighttime, and that's with us being retired / semi-retired/ WFH with a lot of unavoidable daytime usage. Heat pump does its work mostly during the night and we find there's a fairly constant and comfortable temperature throughout the day with little daytime usage. Loads of hot water too. So really the day/night rate is a no-brainer.

I'm considering an ev and obviously that would further tip the balance towards day/night metering. Running the numbers on that and also solar PV, jury's still out on cost and payback!

I'm very suspicious of the opaqueness of smart tariffs, which has been well documented on other threads here.

On other issues, LED lightbulbs are definitely a no-brainer and will save 85% of your lighting cost. We use up some of this by leaving garden and driveway lights on overnight as a security measure. Cost is very low.

I doubt that there's very much that can be saved on washing machines and dishwashers but I suppose every little helps.
 
Hi @Right Winger,

Very grateful for your info provided. Similar situation to our own but no day/night meter so its interesting to read your views.

I'm very suspicious of the opaqueness of smart tariffs

In case I have missed out on some of the information in those threads, I'm just wondering, if you have time, could you elaborate on the smart tariffs.

Thanks.
 
In case I have missed out on some of the information in those threads, I'm just wondering, if you have time, could you elaborate on the smart tariffs.
In essence, the smart tariffs only make sense if you can move a significant portion of your usage to the nights or weekends and avoid the shorter peak times as much as possible. The online comparison tools help shoe you if a smart plan makes sense for you if you have a good understanding of your usage.

However, some have suggested that it is not possible to move back to a non-smart plan. That if true is potentially a bigger issue.
 
If youre already on a smart tarriff, it is apparently, very difficult to switch from that,to a day/night meter, but some have managed to do it.

For the heat pump, you can set a timer on this, to only heat the water during the night rate hours, typically most people with this setup, have the water heated, before morning showers. You can also limit the upper temperature, we use 50 degrees C, and this has worked out fine. Its pointless, heating water to a temperature above that, if it is not being used. The only time we’ve been caught out is where we have say 2 friends staying, and extra showers etc. you can manually over-ride where required, we don’t have any electric showers.

For house heating, find a temperature that suits yee, and set that. This depends on personal preference, and the insulation level and BER of the house. It tends to come on occasionally to maintain temperature's at night, and more frequently on cold winter nights.

During cold nights, the heat pump automatically comes on and goes into “antifreeze” mode, this uses bare minimum power, and significantly less, than when it is actually heating the house, i could be wrong but my understanding is, this is just keeping the external unit, above a minimum temperture.

To benefit fully, from a day/night meter, you also need to change some habits, and time washing machines/dryers/dishwashers, to finish before the night rate ends. We also changed appliances over time, to efficient rated ones, and all bulbs changed to low wattage LED’s, and get better at switching off things, rather than leave them on standby, cumulatively, these items, all add up.

50% usage on night rate is relatively easily achievable. We have an EV also, so its higher, but expect it to go to more than 60 % this summer, as the heating not in use, as tempertures rise.

If you actively make some habit changes, a day/night meter is difficult to beat, i’ve run the numbers a number of times, and makes sense for us, but is largely dependant on each individual household setup. The higher annual standing charge is more than compensated for ourselves, assuming you can move 50 % + to night rate.


The 9 hours on a much cheaper rate, means it is the most practical setup, by far, for an EV, as you are not plugging in/out every single night to avail of a 2 to 3 hour low rate, which is what is only on offer on smart rate plans.

Solar PV, is also an option to consider as well, we don’t have this currently, allthough i have got a quote last year, and thought the payback was a little too long, but keeping an eye on this also.
I would be careful about the temperature you heat your water to.
As far as I know water should be brought to 60degrees C to get rid of the threat of legionnaires:

 
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However, some have suggested that it is not possible to move back to a non-smart plan. That if true is potentially a bigger issue.
Hi Leo,

That would appear to be correct that its not possible to move back. Both El Irl and Bord Gais mentioned this some time back to me because it would appear that its the Regulator who does not allow it.
 
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I would be careful about the temperature you heat your water to.
As far as I know water should be brought to 60degrees C to get rid of the threat of legionnaires:


Good point, and i asked about this, there is a routine on the heat pump for this very purpose, it regularly brings it above 60, its a built in feature, of the Mitsubishi Eco Dan
 
I doubt that there's very much that can be saved on washing machines and dishwashers but I suppose every little helps.

I’m
On 8.9 cent night rate, until early September, so this makes a difference.
In addition, we changed our dryer 2 years ago, to a heat pump Bosch Serie 6, and there is a significant consumption difference.

Looking at changing our 12 year old washing machine next.

These items all added together, with LED bulbs, maxing the night rate, definitely, make a difference
 
Good point, and i asked about this, there is a routine on the heat pump for this very purpose, it regularly brings it above 60, its a built in feature, of the Mitsubishi Eco Dan
I think they all do this. I've a Daikin and it's set to go to 60° once a week.
 
In case I have missed out on some of the information in those threads, I'm just wondering, if you have time, could you elaborate on the smart tariffs.

@Right Winger

Hi,

Sorry about this but I have realised that I misunderstood the whole set up with regard to Smart meter and ordinary meter. We already have a Smart meter which appears to incorporate a Night meter also. I had thought that both the ordinary and Smart would need a separate meter fitted for nighttime use and monitoring :oops:
 
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