New UK scam: Tenants sell the house they have been renting

[Brendan Burgess]

An interesting article in the Financial Times

https://www.ft.com/content/b195fb02-2fde-11e7-9555-23ef563ecf9a

1) A tenant changes their name by deed poll to the landlord's name
2) Take out a passport and other identity documents in the new name.
3) They sell the house for cash

The owner of the house finds out when the buyer tries to register it. The owner does not lose the house, but the buyer loses their cash.

Could it happen in Ireland?

Brendan

 

[noproblem]

No doubt it could happen here, especially with a cheap house or building where the cash used for buying might be dodgy.

 

[mf1]

"Could it happen in Ireland? "

Umm. There's a thought.

Its a real possibility but I can think of a number of failsafes.

1. How many rental properties are mortgage free? If there is a mortgage, I don't see how a tenant could access the mortgage account details so that a solicitor could take up the Deeds.

2. Assuming it is mortgage free, is the tenancy registered with the PRTB - so the tenant must have an Irish PPS number - can they also access the landlords PPS number? If not, a deed can't be stamped and that will become obvious at some stage.

3. But lets say the new tenant has the landlords PPS number, will they have the LPT number and pin? Again, without that and a clear record of LPT being paid, a transaction can't go through.

4. NPPR - how will they get a Certificate of Exemption /Discharge? Unless they choose to pay penal tax?

5. AML and the solicitors involved. Personally, I'm very disinclined to act for people I don't know or who don't come to me by way of someone I do know. The FT article suggests that a solicitor, if presented with a new passport, should ask for an older version.

6. I have only one property currently that does not have any deeds or planning documents. Its a registered property, built in the 1950s - pre 63 - hence no planning paperwork. There are few enough properties like that. So - where are the deeds? No deeds,red flag!

On this,

"No doubt it could happen here, especially with a cheap house or building where the cash used for buying might be dodgy."

Do people with dodgy money not wonder about potentially dodgy situations?

I shall go away now and update my "how not to get sued for negligence by cash purchaser buying from impersonating vendor" folder!

mf

 

[Bronte]

In relation to MF's post

For the PRTB you do need the landlords PPS number, but the tenant can't get that. Also I don't think you must have the tenants PPS number anymore but I'm not sure. I have kept a file with all my tenants PPS numbers. So that I could always trace them, which I think I'm not supposed to keep. When you register online, the number disappears. So I've the details of a lot of people.

But what has the PRTB got to do with selling property?

To pay LPT you need a PPS number. But the tenant could just go online, use his PPS no and pay it.

To get a NPPR easy peasy, just apply for an exemption, using utility bills in your name with your PPS no.

In relation to dodgy money, an amazing percentage of homes are now cash, nothing dodgy. I'm even directly aware of two. An auctioneer told me recently cash buyers only on a property I bid on, because it's divided into 3 flats Banks don't give a mortgage apparently, and even though it's pre 63 it actually does have planning. The second is a house I'm selling as executor, to a solicitor actually, as it happens. Title issue with the garden, it was also bought for cash. But what scuppered it re a bank was the extension build yonks ago, apparently wasn't built as per planning and banks are gone do la li on this.

 

[huskerdu]

Its also not that easy in Ireland to change your name and get a new passport issued in the new name. You need to show common usage for 2 years.
Its fairly dedicated fraud to go through the process of using your new name and explaining to everyone why you have decided to randomly change your name to your landlords name and do it for two years and hope you don't get evicted

 

[mf1]

"To pay LPT you need a PPS number. But the tenant could just go online, use his PPS no and pay it."

No - they need the property i.d. and pin. And the landlords PPS number -which, now that I think of it, will be on the Contract

"To get a NPPR easy peasy, just apply for an exemption, using utility bills in your name with your PPS no."

Some Local Authorities require evidence about the property being a PPR during the requisite period e.g. copy utility bills - its not at all easy to get a Cert. especially, as here, when the property is currently rented and, probably/possibly, rented during the currency of the NPPR charge.

mf

 

[delfio]

I had really difficulty time gathering all the paperwork to get my nppr cert, as far as I know it is mandatory to provide bank statements for the period required. If someone is forging, how on earth are they going to get their hands on a person's old bank statements, they will need bank account numbers, sort codes etc.

 

[Bronte]

I had really difficulty time gathering all the paperwork to get my nppr cert, as far as I know it is mandatory to provide bank statements for the period required. If someone is forging, how on earth are they going to get their hands on a person's old bank statements, they will need bank account numbers, sort codes etc.

We had a thread on this, it depends on each council what they decide they want. Generally it's utility/official documentation with your name and address on it for the beggining and end year. One counsel only wanted the death certificate.

 

[Bronte]

"To pay LPT you need a PPS number. But the tenant could just go online, use his PPS no and pay it."

No - they need the property i.d. and pin. And the landlords PPS number -which, now that I think of it, will be on the Contract

I had to do this for my mother's estate. They said I could use my PPS no or hers. It was fairly easy to do it by email. I guess the LPT cert has a PPS no on it, but it doesn't have to be the owner's number. I imagine some children pay it for their parents as older people tend not to now how to go into revenue.ie.

In any case if you're up to no good a spot of inventive photocopying would do the trick. Do you get original LPT certs. In fact I think they don't issue certs you have to do a print screen from tthe LPT/revenue website.