Get rid of religious education in school and start teaching courses like this. Financial literacy.
New RTE programme "How to be Good with Money"
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gnf_ireland
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To be fair, we need to stop blaming the church for what is happening in the schools. They may run them from an admin point of view, but the department are the ones that sets the curriculum. Currently there are modules of financial literacy included in subjects such as business organisation (or whatever its called now), but would make more sense to me a module in the Transition Year programme, if it belongs anywhere in second level.
In my personal view, it does not belong in secondary school - as financial literacy means very little to those not earning a proper salary. Personally, I would have it as a mandatory course (potentially different modules/focus) which should be triggered at various events in a persons life (either linked to Revenue or Social Welfare), for example:
- first job, as a precondition to being issued the personal tax credit
- first time being self-employed - similarly precondition to earned income credit
- signing onto social welfare for the first time
- availing of joint assessment tax assessment for the first time (and if you go back to single assessment afterwards)
- availing of children's allowance for the first time
- setting up a pension for the first time
- drawing down your pension for the first time
- availing of any tax break associated to a mortgage facility
Would everyone learn something from it - yeah probably. Would a few wise souls on AAM get frustrated by having to attend it - yeah maybe, but in the grand scheme of things it would be beneficial to everyone. We all have to sit a driver theory test, do the required number of lessons, sit the driving test etc - this is just something similar but from a financial point of view.
I think the State needs to stop trying to outsource its responsibilities to others, whether it be charities, church or ANO. The state should 'man up' and recognise too many citizens in the country are not financially literate enough, and actually go do something about it.
gnf_ireland
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And for the record, I made my feelings on religious education in schools and religious ownership of schools known during the consultation process on the matter, about a year ago. Sightly off topic, I know, but just wanted to make that point in case people think I am defending them.
mugsymugsy
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I don't understand why things like tax or interest rates are not taught. We should be teaching children about how to work out what happens if they take out debt and how it costs. Should show them how through education and training they can earn more so they can afford holidays etc
Gordon Gekko
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Or concepts like striving to repay one’s mortgage early.
Killing off a mortgage of €2k a month typically gives someone the flexibility to sacrifice income of €50k a year through working a shorter week, consulting etc.
That’s serious freedom.
Killing off a mortgage of €2k a month typically gives someone the flexibility to sacrifice income of €50k a year through working a shorter week, consulting etc.
That’s serious freedom.
gnf_ireland
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Tax and Interest rates are taught - but as part of the Economics course.
What you are talking about there are more life skills, and you could include things like the difference between voting in European Elections, National Elections and Local Elections also. As I said above, it is probably better suited to a Transition Year programme than anything else. If its not an exam subject, very few schools will give any focus to it.
To be fair to second level students, their knowledge about mathematics is probably far in excess of most other groups given the amount of complex maths they do on a daily basis. Its the practical application of this, and most 14-17 year olds don't care about pensions, mortgages etc.
gnf_ireland
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You may laugh, and you are probably right given the current focus on personal finance in Ireland. We have no issue/surprise doing the ante-natal course about what to expect when we go to hospital, or a number of other things around that time. Personally I would also include infant first aid in it also !
But whether we like it or not, having a child especially the first one turns most peoples finances upside down, whether it be a drop in income, the harsh reality of childcare costs, the cost of nappies/formula etc. My draft list was around times when personal finances change dramatically ! We can swap it to availing of maternity benefit if that helps
gnf_ireland
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I agree that this is a very valid concept, in addition to the benefits of compounding when its in your favour. The question I have though is what 14-17 year old will have any interest or practical understanding of this? Surely its more beneficial to align something like this to when the person is purchasing the house and availing of some sort of tax relief (between TRS, help to buy etc)
I am all for education on personal finance - but it has to be relevant to when people need it, not when they are in secondary school and have different priorities.
gnf_ireland
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Like a lot of private companies, the government also need to have a plan to tackle digital disruption. They cannot simply rest on their laurels and expect the FDI model that worked for the last ~20 years will continue to work for the next 50. It simply does not work like that. While they have have some 'success' in the short term on the digital tax, they are on a losing battle over the next 5 years - there is simply too much money at stake for the larger countries to ignore it. How it is addressed, I have no issue - but a plan will definitely be needed.
Increasing property tax is probably inevitable, but I don't see how they can distinguish between someone with a charge on the mortgage and those without. Some smart bank would just bring out a 0% offset mortgage for qualifying customers and bypass the scheme that way. That type of proposal seems so far away from the current proposals around exempting OAP from property tax !
losttheplot
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I always thought that it should be taught in schools. But think back to the first episode, it was a business teacher.
Ceist Beag
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Look there's a lot of talk on here about teaching children financial literacy either in schools but let's be honest here, children learn how to behave with money from their parents. So I'd agree with the idea put forward by gnf here, start with the parents. If they can be shown how to handle money then their children will learn from them. I would also agree with the point above - many teachers I know would not be my idea of role models for financial advice.
gnf_ireland
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Very valid points here - most teachers I know are not very good with money. They also have no concept on how much it would cost to fund their pension etc.
Personally I would prefer if teachers had a minimal role to play here, outside of a potential transition year project which I can see value with, if it includes representatives from industry (even if they are parents etc)
I would have thought this was more basic career guidance! That said I imagine that is also non-existent in most schools still. Career guidance in my day was - are you going to the Ag College? If not, there are a list of prospectuses in the office if you want to have a look before filling out your CAO form..
gnf_ireland
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Absolutely 100% !
To my mind, financial literacy should be included in schooling from primary up (post-school I think that your suggested education points would also be worth exploring, whether mandated or optional). I think starting in secondary school is too late, and including it in a specialist subject is too narrow. I would see it being included by means of a continuous age-appropriate curriculum similar to the Stay Safe programme.
gnf_ireland
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To be fair, Stay Safe is directly relevant to children. Children are at a very big risk of abuse by adults, and the Stay Safe programme is designed to address this risk.
Financial Literacy is not as relevant to a primary school child. Yes, parents have a responsibility to teach children the value of money - but I do not believe this is the role of the school. Maybe its just me, but I don't believe that parents should abdicate all responsibilities to the school and blame the school when it goes wrong.
While in time, there may be benefits in doing topics like this in school, I don't believe it should be a priority. Priority at the moment should be those who earn and spend right now, given the level of financial literacy present today. I am all for preparing future generations, but I believe the problem needs to be addressed here and now.
Maybe I am in the minority here, but I think this is too important to kick down the road (like we like to do with everything)
I agree with your sentiment on not kicking the can down the road but I think in order to embed it culturally in Ireland school is the optimal place to start. As for it being a parental responsibility, of course it is, however not all parents are equipped to manage their own finances let alone pass on wisdom to their children, such a programme is a framework which should include parents in teaching the child. Giving them the tools that they themselves may never have had. It isn't about kicking the can down the road, it is about starting the journey somewhere.
I'm a secondary school teacher. I can tell you, very very few of them would listen/have an interest when they're not working and have no income to try juggle. If we ever say something like - you earn €30k in that job they're like "Holy cow! €30k! I can buy a brand new €30k car every year so". They don't have a concept of what it's like to manage on that until they have to pay bills etc.
Whenever there's something in the news like bullying, obesity, sex ed the usual answer is "It should be taught in schools!". Fact is government won't pay for people to come in and do it properly so you end up with schmucks like me teaching sex ed to 13 year olds. Parents need to take responsibility for these things.
Whenever there's something in the news like bullying, obesity, sex ed the usual answer is "It should be taught in schools!". Fact is government won't pay for people to come in and do it properly so you end up with schmucks like me teaching sex ed to 13 year olds. Parents need to take responsibility for these things.
Sex education, manners, dress, parenting, money management, respect, bullying, etc, etc, etc are all pushed on to teachers and school. Can someone tell me what parents do today apart from spending what they don't have, getting others in to mind their children, complain when everything goes wrong and of course get on to Talk to Joe to push the agenda. Time for the goverment to bring out a licence for anyone who wants to become a parent in Ireland and charge well for the service along with a full practical testing procedure.
RETIRED2017
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Noproblem you must be new to AAM sure the young people of today are away better than our generation or so say the people who know how to fix every problem in Ireland ,
We need to keep the money away from the people who earn it but don't know how to mind it,
We need to keep the money away from the people who earn it but don't know how to mind it,
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