New property tax

kkelliher

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669
I work in IT and I have rented for the last 6 years and will continue to do so until an average house is 3 times average salary.
Average industrial wage in ireland is circa €34k x 3 = €102k for an average house is never going to happen.

You clearly opted to rent and are not forced to as even by your own words you could have easily gotten a mortgage.

You opted to sit on the fence for 6 years whereas others didnt. This does not make them greedy for risking on 1, 2 or 10 houses. They will have to repay the mortgage either way. They have added to the economy and to the state coffers.

Why should they have to make an additional contribution to the economy over you who has not added in the same way.

agree to disagree with you on this as our points are known
 

brigade

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54
People who bought for investment purposes kept prices inflated and misfourtunate people WHO HAD TO BUY A HOUSE TO LIVE IN from 2005 have been sucker punched with really bad negative equity today.
Your view of this is way to simplistic!
The banks had a big impact on this when they decided to lend multiples of an individuals salary. When I first bought a house it was 2.5 times the main earner a 1 times the lower earner. That was the amount I could borrow and therefore pay for a house. When the banks loosened their lending criteria this gave individuals more money to spend on a house which also led to developers pushing up prices.
 

SteveW9

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87
Average industrial wage in ireland is circa €34k x 3 = €102k for an average house is never going to happen.
wait and see my friend

You clearly opted to rent and are not forced to as even by your own words you could have easily gotten a mortgage.
You opted to sit on the fence for 6 years whereas others didnt. This does not make them greedy for risking on 1, 2 or 10 houses. They will have to repay the mortgage either way. They have added to the economy and to the state coffers.
Why should they have to make an additional contribution to the economy over you who has not added in the same way
I "sat on the fence and opted out" because I didnt think houses in rathmines should be more expensive than manahattan.
I added to the economy by paying over inflated rent to somebody who I now feel should pay tax on that property.
The landlord made a big profit from rent so excuse me for not caring if he gets taxed now.
 

MrMan

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1,470
I think its a great idea to tax 2nd properties, people who bought 2nd houses for investment purposes using the equity on their orginal house, priced first time buyers(who were only trying to get somewhere to live) out of the market.
Their greed is partly responsible for the mess we are in now so its time for some payback. Its great that eventually(probably in about a years time becuase people are still asking insnae prices for crap houses) that a 1st time buyer may actually be able to afford somewhere decent to live.
Alot of people will have bought the 2nd home as their pension, which they saw as a safety net for retirement. Your view on this topic is quite simplistic and doesn't seem to allow for reason.
 

SteveW9

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87
Your view of this is way to simplistic!
The banks had a big impact on this when they decided to lend multiples of an individuals salary. When I first bought a house it was 2.5 times the main earner a 1 times the lower earner. That was the amount I could borrow and therefore pay for a house. When the banks loosened their lending criteria this gave individuals more money to spend on a house which also led to developers pushing up prices.
I only said that people who bought investment properties were partly to blame obviously the bank and government should take more of the blame.
 

SteveW9

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87
Alot of people will have bought the 2nd home as their pension, which they saw as a safety net for retirement. Your view on this topic is quite simplistic and doesn't seem to allow for reason.
I think there should be a few exceptions like the person above who bought a house for an eldery parent. People who bought for their pension because of the tax break.
 

kkelliher

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669
wait and see my friend


I "sat on the fence and opted" because I didnt think houses in rathmines should be more expensive than manahattan.
I added to the economy by paying over inflated rent to somebody who I now feel should pay tax on that property.
The landlord made a big profit from rent so excuse me for not caring if he gets taxed now.

OK as someone who knows how much it costs to build €102 for a 3 bed house in dublin is never going to happen no matter what else happens. If it does the country will be bankrupt and so will everyon in it.

The landlord has paid tax on the property. He paid stamp duty when he bought the property and he paid income tax on the money you paid him. Why should he pay anymore. Should you pay more for Shares?, Business ?

You dont have an arguement, you just have your opinion, thats not based on any facts.
 

kkelliher

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669
I think there should be a few exceptions like the person above who bought a house for an eldery parent. People who bought for their pension because of the tax break.

You will find that this will cover the majority not the minority
 

SteveW9

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87
OK as someone who knows how much it costs to build €102 for a 3 bed house in dublin is never going to happen no matter what else happens. If it does the country will be bankrupt and so will everyon in it.
Who said anything about building a house.
There are currently 15 - 3 bed houses on Daft for less than 180k, there is nothing whatsoever to suggest that these prices wont continue to fall. So 102k for a 3 bed may not be as mad as you think.

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?s[cc_id]=ct1&s[a_id]=&s[mnp]=&s[mxp]=200000&s[bd_no]=3&refine=Refine&search=1&s[search_type]=sale&s[furn]=&s[refreshmap]=1&search_type=sale

You dont have an arguement, you just have your opinion, thats not based on any facts.
I thought the whole idea of a forum was to allow people to express their opinions.
 

Mpsox

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1,615
OK as someone who knows how much it costs to build €102 for a 3 bed house in dublin is never going to happen no matter what else happens. If it does the country will be bankrupt and so will everyon in it.

The landlord has paid tax on the property. He paid stamp duty when he bought the property and he paid income tax on the money you paid him. Why should he pay anymore. Should you pay more for Shares?, Business ?

You dont have an arguement, you just have your opinion, thats not based on any facts.
I have one house, it's not in Dublin and I have no connection with the building trade, please explain to me how I will be bankrupt if the price of a 3 bed semi in Dublin falls to €102k. Please share the facts on this one, not just your opinion

Cost of running my business has gone up via the increase in VAT. why shouldn't the cost of being a landlord go up as well?
 

kkelliher

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Messages
669
Who said anything about building a house.
There are currently 15 - 3 bed houses on Daft for less than 180k, there is nothing whatsoever to suggest that these prices wont continue to fall. So 102k for a 3 bed may not be as mad as you think.

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?s[cc_id]=ct1&s[a_id]=&s[mnp]=&s[mxp]=200000&s[bd_no]=3&refine=Refine&search=1&s[search_type]=sale&s[furn]=&s[refreshmap]=1&search_type=sale


I thought the whole idea of a forum was to allow people to express their opinions.

Nice to see your comparing apples with apples. We have gone from Rathmines for €599k to Tallaght for €180k. I'll say no more.

Everyone has the right to their opinion. And as I said previously agree to disagree
 

SteveW9

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Messages
87
Nice to see your comparing apples with apples. We have gone from Rathmines for €599k to Tallaght for €180k. I'll say no more.

Everyone has the right to their opinion. And as I said previously agree to disagree
Practice what you preach buddy I never said anything about Rathmines for €599k, i said i didnt want to pay 500k for 2 bed appartment.

Fact is average house prices are falling dramatically.
 

kkelliher

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Messages
669
I have one house, it's not in Dublin and I have no connection with the building trade, please explain to me how I will be bankrupt if the price of a 3 bed semi in Dublin falls to €102k. Please share the facts on this one, not just your opinion

Cost of running my business has gone up via the increase in VAT. why shouldn't the cost of being a landlord go up as well?
Cost of VAt effects everybody including landlords. Maintenance, advertising, legal fees, outlays, etc Unless a landlord is VAT registered he cant claim the VAT back. Most businesses should be able.

We were talking about a person who is waiting until the average cost of a house in dublin falls to 3 times average salary which would be circa €102k.

For the average in dublin to fall to that level (remembering that outside dublin the fall would be larger) the country / banks will be in a similar position to the sub-prime debt levels in America (how many have gone under or bailed out by US government to hugh amounts) and our Banks / Government would not be in a position to carry that level of debt. This is an economical fact.

I did not mean it to read that we will all personally be bankrupt direclty but if that did happen there would be very many who would as the debt level would be off the wall in comparison to what wage levels would be if this was to happen
 

kkelliher

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Messages
669
Practice what you preach buddy I never said anything about Rathmines for €599k, i said i didnt want to pay 500k for 2 bed appartment.

Fact is average house prices are falling dramatically.
Apologies, but please find me an apartment for 180K in the same place as the one for 500K.

Honestly lets leave it at that. I understand your point, you understand mine
 
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