The cost of letting go is me back at square one with a lot of unprotected cash sitting in the bank (another major concern at this point is the temporary high balance guarantee running out) that's just trickling away on eyewatering rent and storage costs. Honestly at this stage, I can't think straight and wholly regret selling up my previous house too early and basically rendering my family homeless and assetless for pie in the sky with still no endgame in sight. That was my biggest mistake, and one I have to live with now but taking all advice into account at the time believed that selling up and renting in the interim was 'safest' option. Paying for that now
Yes, think I will just need to try and put regrets aside and make the best of it once it's done - assuming that actually happens. Remaining in limbo is the worst kind of torture.I will say even though I'm still debating what I did, especially when fixing yet another builder issue decades later.
The rest family made it their home and largely could care less about build issues.
Sound advice, thank you. Feels like all other parties, solicitors, agent and developer have washed their hands of any of it, and as buyers we are being made to feel like we're lucky to be getting scraps from the table, while paying close to 1m for the privilege. It's a bitter pill but since my family and finances are stuck in limbo, I have no choice but to swallow it now.It's difficult not to sympathise with someone in your situation. It's an awful position to be in. In particular, finding your solicitor less than helpful is a major disappointment.
Assuming that you are going to proceed with the purchase, however unhappy you are about it, you need to get the best possible outcome. I would suggest the following at a minimum:
The snag list should be completed by a qualified engineer with adequate professional indemnity insurance. You should review this in situ (bring along a trusted friend or family member or two with relevant experience as a fresh pair of eyes) to ensure it is comprehensive. Your solicitor should send it to the builder's solicitor requesting remediation and a comprehensive response. Anything that hasn't/can't be tested at this point should be noted for follow up.
In addition to the snag list, given the extent of the cosmetic issues, I would get the drains checked and request a full report including cctv inspection. This is an area that would always concern me and I would definitely have checked as remediation at a later date is incredibly expensive. You should also consider getting the electrical, plumbing and heating systems independently checked/certified. There will be bills for this, but it could save you a lot in the longer term.
You should also have a man to man discussion with your solicitor and explain that you aren't happy with his performance. These people aren't cheap, and need to be told when they aren't performing (I've been there). At a minimum he should assist in getting you the best possible outcome starting now. He should also be prepared to pick up on the triple glazing issue for you, it is far too significant and important to be explained away as a misprint.
I have gone through snag lists that were many pages long and were frankly mainly cosmetic issues, put in as padding or CYA by the snagger and I dismissed 90% of the issues on the basis that decoration would eliminate a lot and the rest I could live with or fix. You also need to decide yourself what you can live with and what you can't. And draw a line in the sand or it will drive you mad. You will have to live in the house and you need to be able to get this sorted asap and then put the misery behind you and enjoy your new family home.
The problem with conveyancing is that you are in most cases paying a small fixed fee for a basic piece of work. If you want to take the builder to task I’d suggest you need a separate engagement or perhaps another solicitor (it’ll cost a lot more )It's difficult not to sympathise with someone in your situation. It's an awful position to be in. In particular, finding your solicitor less than helpful is a major disappointment.
Assuming that you are going to proceed with the purchase, however unhappy you are about it, you need to get the best possible outcome. I would suggest the following at a minimum:
The snag list should be completed by a qualified engineer with adequate professional indemnity insurance. You should review this in situ (bring along a trusted friend or family member or two with relevant experience as a fresh pair of eyes) to ensure it is comprehensive. Your solicitor should send it to the builder's solicitor requesting remediation and a comprehensive response. Anything that hasn't/can't be tested at this point should be noted for follow up.
In addition to the snag list, given the extent of the cosmetic issues, I would get the drains checked and request a full report including cctv inspection. This is an area that would always concern me and I would definitely have checked as remediation at a later date is incredibly expensive. You should also consider getting the electrical, plumbing and heating systems independently checked/certified. There will be bills for this, but it could save you a lot in the longer term.
You should also have a man to man discussion with your solicitor and explain that you aren't happy with his performance. These people aren't cheap, and need to be told when they aren't performing (I've been there). At a minimum he should assist in getting you the best possible outcome starting now. He should also be prepared to pick up on the triple glazing issue for you, it is far too significant and important to be explained away as a misprint.
I have gone through snag lists that were many pages long and were frankly mainly cosmetic issues, put in as padding or CYA by the snagger and I dismissed 90% of the issues on the basis that decoration would eliminate a lot and the rest I could live with or fix. You also need to decide yourself what you can live with and what you can't. And draw a line in the sand or it will drive you mad. You will have to live in the house and you need to be able to get this sorted asap and then put the misery behind you and enjoy your new family home.
Yes I’m sure it feels like a bitter pill. You are correct that if you proceed, the bulider, the engineer, the solicitor etc will all get on with their lives. if you allow the disappointment to linger you will be miserable alone. If you proceed I suggest (no matter how difficult it is at first) that you then put the entire matter behind you and get on with life. in any event you need to move on one way or the other, so either walk away now or accept the best outcome you can get and embrace it 100%. And don’t look at any remaining deficiencies every time you pass them, it will drive you nuts and make you miserable. Instead move on and try to recapture the joy of your new home for you and your family, decorate and furnish it with gusto, hang your pictures, plant your garden and make your memories.Sound advice, thank you. Feels like all other parties, solicitors, agent and developer have washed their hands of any of it, and as buyers we are being made to feel like we're lucky to be getting scraps from the table, while paying close to 1m for the privilege. It's a bitter pill but since my family and finances are stuck in limbo, I have no choice but to swallow it now.
It's a great little country Ireland.. Terrible! All of this advice about suing and the engineers is just hot air. Meanwhile we continue to spend billions per annum in space heating requirements whilst living in a temperate climate. Best of luck.Sound advice, thank you. Feels like all other parties, solicitors, agent and developer have washed their hands of any of it, and as buyers we are being made to feel like we're lucky to be getting scraps from the table, while paying close to 1m for the privilege. It's a bitter pill but since my family and finances are stuck in limbo, I have no choice but to swallow it now.
Yes, here and in most other jurisdictions caveat emptor applies to property acquisition. While Finish law does impart more onerous obligation of disclosure on the vendor, it also requires the purchaser to inspect the property, and to engage professional advisers should they deem anything to be suspicious.Thats part of the problem here. The onus is staked in favour of the seller - rather than the buyer.
The expat forums that advise on the process would suggest that wiring & plumbing diagrams are not required, and that only significant changes would require documentation, so all very similar to the standard compliance verification and BER information for a sale here.IT would be much simpler if the seller had to produce a file for each and every potential buyer documenting all of the signoffs, wiring diagrams, plumbing diagrams and every modification done to a house showing full compliance.
Anecdotes make poor evidence, Finish data would suggest the typical 1950's dwelling there uses twice the average gas energy for space heating here.For example, on Christmas day, 3 weeks ago, whilst guest at a 1950's common dormer designed house,
Do you think adding thousands to the cost of selling a home is going to make homes cheaper or more expensive?So, for the OP, his stressful experience would not happen there - I mean it is a joke considering the sum of money been paid and he seems to be in a catch 22.
Yes, here and in most other jurisdictions caveat emptor applies to property acquisition. While Finish law does impart more onerous obligation of disclosure on the vendor, it also requires the purchaser to inspect the property, and to engage professional advisers should they deem anything to be suspicious.
The expat forums that advise on the process would suggest that wiring & plumbing diagrams are not required, and that only significant changes would require documentation, so all very similar to the standard compliance verification and BER information for a sale here.
Some of the other documentation is commonly sought in sales here at closing, assuming the purchaser's solicitor is doing their job. There are proposals to require vendors to gather some of these documents in advance of going to the market. That would help avoid some issues with compliance, liens, etc.
Anecdotes make poor evidence, Finish data would suggest the typical 1950's dwelling there uses twice the average gas energy for space heating here.
Do you think adding thousands to the cost of selling a home is going to make homes cheaper or more expensive?
Hi Leo,Yes, here and in most other jurisdictions caveat emptor applies to property acquisition. While Finish law does impart more onerous obligation of disclosure on the vendor, it also requires the purchaser to inspect the property, and to engage professional advisers should they deem anything to be suspicious.
The expat forums that advise on the process would suggest that wiring & plumbing diagrams are not required, and that only significant changes would require documentation, so all very similar to the standard compliance verification and BER information for a sale here.
Some of the other documentation is commonly sought in sales here at closing, assuming the purchaser's solicitor is doing their job. There are proposals to require vendors to gather some of these documents in advance of going to the market. That would help avoid some issues with compliance, liens, etc.
Anecdotes make poor evidence, Finish data would suggest the typical 1950's dwelling there uses twice the average gas energy for space heating here.
Do you think adding thousands to the cost of selling a home is going to make homes cheaper or more expensive?
A post war Finnish (two n's) house, in Lahti built under terrible post war austerity for soldiers and 500,000 refugees, is only twice as bad as an ultra modern 2020 Irish house is a fantastic result, a testiment to their quality!!!
I see many 1970's house for sale with BER F/G or and as for 1950's irish houses, good luck. These houses are on sale for 500k+.
98% of residential houses are oils or gas or elec open fire.- what is the % of 2020 houses with heat pumps as a share of the total domestic dwelling population 1-2% ??.Haha, have another read. How many 2020 houses here are using gas for space heating? The vast majority using gas are older urban builldings, many of them from the 50's and 60's.
Prices here are more a reflection on a market suffering from years of under-supply rather than a measure of quality. My last home was built in the 50's, mass concrete walls but once dry-lined my heating bills were below the national average.
You're the one who brought up 2020 house energy use, why don't you tell me? Then tell me why you brought it up in relation to average gas use for space heating.98% of residential houses are oils or gas or elec open fire.- what is the % of 2020 houses with heat pumps as a share of the total domestic dwelling population 1-2% ??.
Again, you seem to have missed the point there completely. Only about 20% of the total housing stock dates from that time.How many houses from the boom use fossil fuel - answer = all of them. They are NOT old houses.
Perhaps have a read of what I said.Anyway , for the OP, its a disaster the system, - is your advice to sue ?
No, the development is in South Dublin.By any chance is the house half way between Swords and Ashbourne?
Double check your contracts to see whats promised versus what you can see in the initial snag list. You probably need your surveyor to do a level 3 survey to thoroughly check for major issues. Triple glazing instead of double is a huge difference if triple was contractually agreed. Its not so much the surface finishes in the interior I'd be concerned about so much as major structural issues - get your surveyor back in - a type 2 survey on a small house cost me just over 500 euro so imagine you're looking at 1-2k for a large new home on type 3.After torturous repeated build delays, during which my family and I have been living in rental accommodation, I was finally told the new build I'm buying is 'ready' for snagging.
Except it's not. It's painfully apparent even at a cursory glance that the workmanship on pretty much every last inch of the place is half-baked and substandard, and whatever skilled contractors the builder used on the showhouse obviously haven't been next nor near my place. Lumps out of kitchen cupboards crudely patched back up, doors not hanging right or closing, messy paint splotches and more worryingly, double-glazed windows instead of triple as per the brochure/showhouse.
The guy surveying the place for me was equally taken aback at the level of finish, the snag took him 3 hours and his list is about twenty pages long. I'd expected some issues of course, but if the outward stuff looks that bad, it makes me wonder what other corners have been cut beneath the surface that I can't see. To say nothing of the fact that the place is costing us the guts of €1m!
What are the builders legal obligations in this regard? Is 'good finish' merely in the eye of the beholder? Can I refuse to complete if they don't bring everything up to showhouse standard as this feels like a blatant bait and switch. Or is them saying it's ready for completion when it's clearly not, be merely another excuse for seemingly endless delays?
*Edited to add: Builders have not yet responded to any of the snagging concerns which we submitted last week.*
Full report won't cost you that much. No, I don't work in surveying! I asked someone who was very involved in the original pyrite campaign who they recommended, and I found a guy in Slane that did a small house for about 500 euro. That was a level 2 survey - level 3 would go to checking additional stuff and it certainly sounds like there is a real case for giving yourself satisfaction in this caseWe are in the same boat here, the exact same issue with triple glazing being replaced by double glazing. The brochure /advertising (which was the official webside of the development) advertised triple glazed windows, specifications said either double or triple of specific u-value, however double glazing was fitted and air tightness /BER report shows they less then what they should be regardless.... Another thing that really got me down to my knees was no soundproofing!! Bare concrete exposed behind the heating system (stud, insulation and plaster board is simply not there), while snagging we could hear everything next door, footsteps on stairs, radio etc. I don't even know where to start, proper report would probably cost me thousands?! Where is your development, mine is in Co Kildare?
If that is your experience, leave that solicitor and get a competent one. I had one a couple of years ago on a failed sale who straightforwardly dealt with a major issue with the seller and took no nonsense. Told me in no uncertain terms to walk away from the purchase and explained why. I did get a second opinion from a local planner who seconded everything she told me. Your solicitor is working on your behalf, not the sellers.“The problem with conveyancing” in my experience is that solicitors appear to regard it as money for old rope and really don’t want to deal with the issues that inevitably arise. I’m not suggesting “taking the builder to task” by which I assume you mean dragging this into the Circuit or High Court which would be high risk, high cost and would tie the OP up for a long time. I suggested getting the solicitor to do his job, getting her/him to pick up on the snag list and the issue with the windows and deal with them formally given that the OP’s informal approach has failed. the objective being to get the best possible outcome for the OP. A good solicitor would knock together an appropriate cover letter in minutes. My experience in such situations is that formalising the matter brings it to a head, and achieves clarity if not satisfactory conclusion. At the very least it should give the OP the context in which to make a final decision on whether to proceed or walk away.
Actually you can get aggregate data for all homes built ever - since 2016, in 2022 census, and electric heating represents a dwindling proportion - about 50% of all 93k homes built in this period have electric forms of heating (most likely heatpumps).98% of residential houses are oils or gas or elec open fire.- what is the % of 2020 houses with heat pumps as a share of the total domestic dwelling population 1-2% ??.
How many houses from the boom use fossil fuel - answer = all of them. They are NOT old houses.
Gas is shorthand for fossil, a needless expensive burden in a temperate climate. You should hardly need to provide any thermal heat input in a climate of 5C - 20C, designed and built properly.
Anyway , back for the OP, its a disaster the system, - is your advice to sue ?