We Will have to wait and see if the money part works,
Ah we don't, it's been proven over and again that money is an ineffective means of motivation over time. If money alone worked we'd have some of the best politicians in the world!!
New boss for the HSE
- Thread starter elacsaplau
- Start date
Ah we don't, it's been proven over and again that money is an ineffective means of motivation over time. If money alone worked we'd have some of the best politicians in the world!!
Gerard Howlin on SO'R show earlier said the turnover rate for nurses in Irish hospitals is 5%. The equivalent rate in Oz is 15%.
RETIRED2017
Registered User
- Messages
- 756
I agree with you fully in the above post, The point I was making has nothing to do with motivation and all got to do with the transfer of more money from taxpayers telling them it is for there own good,
Lots of high earning taxpayers have already bought we are taking this action for the patients from the feedback i am getting high earners will be footing the Bill the agree in giving Nurses more money/pay ,
There must be some mistake; nurses are leaving Ireland in their droves. Sure whatsherface, your wan who's in charge of the INMO said so and the nurses, much like all angels, are incapable of lying.
Someone stole all your punctuation again...I agree with you fully in the above post, The point I was making has nothing to do with motivation and all got to do with the transfer of more money from taxpayers telling them it is for there own good,
Lots of high earning taxpayers have already bought we are taking this action for the patients from the feedback i am getting high earners will be footing the Bill the agree in giving Nurses more money/pay ,
RETIRED2017
Registered User
- Messages
- 756
O the smart one who travels light
It is the people who think they are smart who are being stole from and blame others congratulations on you next pay increase I am sure the Nurses can do with most of it,
People do things to make others feel good ,
Last edited:
Thanks and sure they'll only get a little over half of it. They are well worth it, angels the lot of them. Not one of them is lazy or greedy or incompetent or disinterested... now if we could just get them to work a full day...congratulations on you next pay increase I am sure the Nurses can do with most of it,
RETIRED2017
Registered User
- Messages
- 756
I think they work a full day not many on AAM,
By the way I do agree with you about there are lots of people who no longer work a full week public and private sector , there are lots of people hoping to retire early public and private sector ,which means more pressure on housing If the are replaced lots will be from outside Ireland all needing extra housing in most cases,
I see the results myself like making an appointment to see a doctor unless I push which doctor I want to see I will finish up seeing a different doctor each time I go,
Last edited:
[broken link removed]is very interesting and blows the entire INMO argument out of the water.
I suspect there's little chance of the Comrades in RTE ever asking their Brethren in the INMO any hard questions based on these facts, instead reporting emotive, emotional fluff pieces from the picket line.
I suspect there's little chance of the Comrades in RTE ever asking their Brethren in the INMO any hard questions based on these facts, instead reporting emotive, emotional fluff pieces from the picket line.
RETIRED2017
Registered User
- Messages
- 756
Once high earning taxpayers are prepared to pay up no point in blaming RTE , INMO are pushing an open door, High earners are not going to protest end of story,
Ceist Beag
Registered User
- Messages
- 1,426
It looks like your link is to a pdf on your harddrive Purple.
Over the last 3 years on any given working day 4.83% of nurses are absent from work. They are not on maternity leave, they are not on annual leave, they are not on exam or study leave, they are not on certified sick leave, they're just not at work.
In WTE terms, that's 1,800 nurses not at work. Let that sink in, 1,800 nurses not on duty on any given day and please check my numbers. I don't know how many nursing employees that is - actual people, but surely Simon knows or can find out. This was the kind of question PPARS was supposed to be able to answer at the touch of a button (9 million estimated cost turned into 221 million spend before they binned it.)
I think your last sentence answers your own question in part,
In WTE terms, that's 1,800 nurses not at work. Let that sink in, 1,800 nurses not on duty on any given day and please check my numbers. I don't know how many nursing employees that is - actual people, but surely Simon knows or can find out. This was the kind of question PPARS was supposed to be able to answer at the touch of a button (9 million estimated cost turned into 221 million spend before they binned it.)
I think your last sentence answers your own question in part,
or just show up for duty.
RETIRED2017
Registered User
- Messages
- 756
ALL are from generations younger than me, lots are around the same age as you, lots are younger than you , What ever happened to all the younger generations you were Posting about not being greedy like the older folk,
Once the gave a pay rise to the Garda there is no argument why the Nurses should not get one as well ,
If posters/people were supporting all government employees should get a pay rise if the Garda got one we would not be in the position we are in now,
All the rest will get extra pay rise just give it a little more time,Slowly slowly catchy Monkey' so we might as well bring it to a head now,
As you already said by 2050 all taxes well have being signed over to pay binding contracts ,including the binding contract to make up any short fall in the future in prsi pensions of public service ,
There is no sign of the private sector campaign to insist on Binding pensions payments like the public sector have secured when the moved from class D prsi to class A1 prsi this will have a major long term consequence for private sector workers unless there is a campaign to get the same conditions for the same Prsi contributions,
Last edited:
Labour Court issue a recommendation that apparently addresses the pay issue , apparently to the order of 7.3 % - hopefully acceptable to all parties
All Unions representing public sector workers must be chomping at the bit to see the details of the recommendation to see if there’s an opportunity for their members to benefit also - particularly the teacher unions who are outside the current wage agreement
All Unions representing public sector workers must be chomping at the bit to see the details of the recommendation to see if there’s an opportunity for their members to benefit also - particularly the teacher unions who are outside the current wage agreement
Last edited:
RETIRED2017
Registered User
- Messages
- 756
Lots will be unhappy ,There are lots of hardworking public servants who should get the same as the nurses end of,
They have my support I hope the take action shortly,
They have my support I hope the take action shortly,
The increase the nurses want would cost €300m I understand before any knock on claims. Enough to build a new children's hospital every few years.
RETIRED2017
Registered User
- Messages
- 756
The right wing ATM Machine will pay up not hard to fool them all of the time,
It just goes to show what you can get by bullying and threatening the vulnerable. Shame on the nurses, shame of the unions and the powers that be for bending the knee to the unions. Any bets on the absenteeism figures improving? By that I mean moving just an iota away from the current figure of almost 5%. I suggest no change.
On Marian Finucane on Sunday someone claimed that the public health system is short 1,700 WTE nurses. This number is frighteningly close to the 1,800 WTEs I stated are absent from work each year, based solely on HSE figures- they are not on certified sick-leave, maternity or parental leave, annual leave, exam leave or study leave, they're just not at work. Neither nurses nor the nursing unions dispute this figure.
Instead, nurses claim absenteeism is due to the stresses and strains caused by "the system". Nurses, 38% of the total HSE WTE employees *are* the system, so let’s see if the system improves with more money in their wallets. Let’s see if patient safety and treatment outcomes improve with more cash, which of course it was never about.
Also on the Marian Finucane show on Sunday, a nurse with lots of experience reminded us that in the 90's, *nurses* decided they would work 12-hour shifts so as to reduce the number of days they had to be at work each week, reducing travel costs and child-care and other costs. Back then we gave the nurses what they demanded, shame on us. Now they claim that acceding to their demands back then and letting them work long hours, has resulted in work-place stress for them.
Nurses claim that the awfulness of what they see and have to experience each day at work is causing them stress. If this is the case, then either they are completely unsuited to the work and cannot adopt a professional attitude and outlook to the environment they work in *or* their training and preparation for work *they* have chosen for themselves is inadequate. Do we hear similar tosh from doctors? I don’t remember hearing it, but I do remember hearing junior doctors being forced to work 48-hour shifts some years ago.
Other clinical professionals, psychologists, counsellors, etc. are required to undertake one-to-one clinical supervision with a senior professional outside of their place of employment on a regular basis, e.g. one hour's clinical supervision for each 40 hours clinical engagement. All clients are of course discussed anonymously. In the past, my employer paid for this, but I undertook the sessions in my own time. It gave me an opportunity to decompress from the work, to check my relationships with clients and colleagues, to examine issues like outcomes, treatment planning, etc. dispassionately with an experienced, disinterested 3rd party. Apparently, this is not required of nurses and the extra money will take its place anyway, just like the wonderful panacea it seems to be for them.
A requirement to enable healthy engagement with colleagues is a weekly peer supervision meeting in the place of work. This is not a multi-disciplinary team meeting nor a change-of-shift hand-over meeting but an opportunity to raise any issues arising amongst and between peer professionals in an open forum. The focus is the work and the client in the context of the group in the room. Introducing issues arising in relation to peers not present is strictly forbidden as is discussing issues raised at the meeting outside of it. Some of my employers engaged an independent professional as the process owner/manager, someone who had no input (or 1st hand experience) of the content. A very useful tool for the development and maintenance of a healthy work environment, but if nurses were to use it might eat into the time nurses like to spend discussing foreign holidays and car insurance at work while ignoring the suffering of patients. Money will of course fix these problems too.
Listening to Marian on Sunday I was struck by the militarisation of nursing. People spoke about putting feet on the ground, presumably meaning recruiting more staff, a direct adoption of having “more boots on the ground in Fallujah” which meant invading a country. Nurses talk about being “on the frontline,” another military term. Nurses are not and have not been on the frontline ever and recently they’ve only been on the picket line. The only people on the frontline suffering and sometimes dying are patients and their families. Another military term adopted and misused in nursing is “triage.” In battlefield situations to triage injured soldiers is to divide them into three groups as follows:
1. Those with minor injuries, who with minimal treatment could return immediately to the front-line. This group was treated first
2. Seriously injured casualties who would survive with treatment, but who would require long convalescence or might not be able to return to the front-line to engage the enemy were treated next
3. Those with catastrophic, life-threatening/life-altering injuries who even with extensive treatment would probably die anyway, i.e. those casualties (not people, God forbid) who survived until everyone was treated, got medical / nursing / orderly attention last.
I’m not sure what desensitised uncaring being introduced these terms into nursing but they have a lot to answer for.
Those who died or who suffered unnecessarily consequential to nurses' greed will no doubt be dismissed as merely "collateral damage". On the Joe show yesterday a nurse's mother supporting her daughter's strike action said as much, "people are dying anyway." What a singularly callous outlook to have, but unsurprising in an atmosphere of uncaring greed as highlighted by a picket-line placard bearer “SHOW US THE MONEY” shown on a TV news report.
On Marian Finucane on Sunday someone claimed that the public health system is short 1,700 WTE nurses. This number is frighteningly close to the 1,800 WTEs I stated are absent from work each year, based solely on HSE figures- they are not on certified sick-leave, maternity or parental leave, annual leave, exam leave or study leave, they're just not at work. Neither nurses nor the nursing unions dispute this figure.
Instead, nurses claim absenteeism is due to the stresses and strains caused by "the system". Nurses, 38% of the total HSE WTE employees *are* the system, so let’s see if the system improves with more money in their wallets. Let’s see if patient safety and treatment outcomes improve with more cash, which of course it was never about.
Also on the Marian Finucane show on Sunday, a nurse with lots of experience reminded us that in the 90's, *nurses* decided they would work 12-hour shifts so as to reduce the number of days they had to be at work each week, reducing travel costs and child-care and other costs. Back then we gave the nurses what they demanded, shame on us. Now they claim that acceding to their demands back then and letting them work long hours, has resulted in work-place stress for them.
Nurses claim that the awfulness of what they see and have to experience each day at work is causing them stress. If this is the case, then either they are completely unsuited to the work and cannot adopt a professional attitude and outlook to the environment they work in *or* their training and preparation for work *they* have chosen for themselves is inadequate. Do we hear similar tosh from doctors? I don’t remember hearing it, but I do remember hearing junior doctors being forced to work 48-hour shifts some years ago.
Other clinical professionals, psychologists, counsellors, etc. are required to undertake one-to-one clinical supervision with a senior professional outside of their place of employment on a regular basis, e.g. one hour's clinical supervision for each 40 hours clinical engagement. All clients are of course discussed anonymously. In the past, my employer paid for this, but I undertook the sessions in my own time. It gave me an opportunity to decompress from the work, to check my relationships with clients and colleagues, to examine issues like outcomes, treatment planning, etc. dispassionately with an experienced, disinterested 3rd party. Apparently, this is not required of nurses and the extra money will take its place anyway, just like the wonderful panacea it seems to be for them.
A requirement to enable healthy engagement with colleagues is a weekly peer supervision meeting in the place of work. This is not a multi-disciplinary team meeting nor a change-of-shift hand-over meeting but an opportunity to raise any issues arising amongst and between peer professionals in an open forum. The focus is the work and the client in the context of the group in the room. Introducing issues arising in relation to peers not present is strictly forbidden as is discussing issues raised at the meeting outside of it. Some of my employers engaged an independent professional as the process owner/manager, someone who had no input (or 1st hand experience) of the content. A very useful tool for the development and maintenance of a healthy work environment, but if nurses were to use it might eat into the time nurses like to spend discussing foreign holidays and car insurance at work while ignoring the suffering of patients. Money will of course fix these problems too.
Listening to Marian on Sunday I was struck by the militarisation of nursing. People spoke about putting feet on the ground, presumably meaning recruiting more staff, a direct adoption of having “more boots on the ground in Fallujah” which meant invading a country. Nurses talk about being “on the frontline,” another military term. Nurses are not and have not been on the frontline ever and recently they’ve only been on the picket line. The only people on the frontline suffering and sometimes dying are patients and their families. Another military term adopted and misused in nursing is “triage.” In battlefield situations to triage injured soldiers is to divide them into three groups as follows:
1. Those with minor injuries, who with minimal treatment could return immediately to the front-line. This group was treated first
2. Seriously injured casualties who would survive with treatment, but who would require long convalescence or might not be able to return to the front-line to engage the enemy were treated next
3. Those with catastrophic, life-threatening/life-altering injuries who even with extensive treatment would probably die anyway, i.e. those casualties (not people, God forbid) who survived until everyone was treated, got medical / nursing / orderly attention last.
I’m not sure what desensitised uncaring being introduced these terms into nursing but they have a lot to answer for.
Those who died or who suffered unnecessarily consequential to nurses' greed will no doubt be dismissed as merely "collateral damage". On the Joe show yesterday a nurse's mother supporting her daughter's strike action said as much, "people are dying anyway." What a singularly callous outlook to have, but unsurprising in an atmosphere of uncaring greed as highlighted by a picket-line placard bearer “SHOW US THE MONEY” shown on a TV news report.
Last edited: