New Bank Holiday

[Purple]

it is fairly obnoxious that you accuse people of being stupid simply because they have a different view to you on something.

I agree. If I did that it would be obnoxious.
What I did do was form the view that people who take a deeply insidious and repressive thing which has been dressed up and misrepresented and believe the spin are idiots in that they are participating in the oppression of women but believe that they are supporting freedom of choice. When people who are brainwashed and then "freely express" their views it is reasonable to point out that they have formed such views because they were brainwashed.

When someone in an abusive relationship tells you that they deserve their beating you don't support their choices. In fact doing so would be obnoxious.

 

[Baby boomer]

.....

When someone in an abusive relationship tells you that they deserve their beating you don't support their choices. In fact doing so would be obnoxious.

An excellent analogy. Well said!

 

[RetirementPlan]

There are people who have different views to me on Covid and think vaccines are a plot by Bill Gates to microchip us all. I think such people are stupid or brainwashed.

There are people who have different views to me on Islam and think hijab is a liberating or empowering free choice for women. I also think such people are stupid or brainwashed.

There's nothing obnoxious about forming views about people's mental qualities based on the rationality or otherwise of what they choose to say. We all do it all the time.

Sweet of you to rush to his defence, but I don't think he really needs it. It is interesting to note how you had to expand his 'stupid' claim to 'stupid or brainwashed', which he didn't actually say, in order to be able to justify it.
And you can speak for yourself on the 'we all do it all the time'. You don't speak for me.

I agree. If I did that it would be obnoxious.
What I did do was form the view that people who take a deeply insidious and repressive thing which has been dressed up and misrepresented and believe the spin are idiots in that they are participating in the oppression of women but believe that they are supporting freedom of choice. When people who are brainwashed and then "freely express" their views it is reasonable to point out that they have formed such views because they were brainwashed.

When someone in an abusive relationship tells you that they deserve their beating you don't support their choices. In fact doing so would be obnoxious.

That's exactly what you did. You said she was 'too stupid', and you joined me and anyone else who didn't get outraged by two teenage girls on a soft news item in the same slur, with your 'as are those who agree with'.
It's not exactly credible to suggest that every Muslim woman in the world who wears a hijab is 'too stupid'. All the doctors, all the scientists, all the academics, all the lawyers, all the smart people struggling to survive in the most difficult circumstances, all apparently 'too stupid' for you because they take a different view on something. There was no mention of 'brainwashed' in your post - just 'too stupid' and 'useful idiots'. Absolutely obnoxious.

An excellent analogy. Well said!

If there was any relationship between beating your partner and choosing to wear an item of clothing for religious reasons, you might be right. But there's no relationship, so you're wrong.

 

[Baby boomer]

Sweet of you to rush to his defence, but I don't think he really needs it.

Indeed he doesn't! @Purple is well able to fight his own corner and doesn't need backup. I happen to both agree and disagree with him on various issues. That's life.

It is interesting to note how you had to expand his 'stupid' claim to 'stupid or brainwashed', which he didn't actually say, in order to be able to justify it.

Yeah, I wouldn't say "stupid" is the most appropriate way to put it. That's why I went for "stupid or brainwashed" you see. I could have gone for "stupid, brainwashed, indoctrinated, deluded or deceitful" to cover a few more bases, but hey, there's times when brevity beats longwinded but technically accurate.

And you can speak for yourself on the 'we all do it all the time'. You don't speak for me.

Ok, fair enough, you don't make judgements on people's mental faculties based on what they say. I believe you if you say so. I don't see why you would refuse to take a relevant statement into account in making a judgement, but so be it if that's the way you operate.

That's exactly what you did. You said she was 'too stupid', and you joined me and anyone else who didn't get outraged by two teenage girls on a soft news item in the same slur, with your 'as are those who agree with'.
It's not exactly credible to suggest that every Muslim woman in the world who wears a hijab is 'too stupid'. All the doctors, all the scientists, all the academics, all the lawyers, all the smart people struggling to survive in the most difficult circumstances, all apparently 'too stupid' for you because they take a different view on something. There was no mention of 'brainwashed' in your post - just 'too stupid' and 'useful idiots'. Absolutely obnoxious.

Whatever about "stupid" and I take your point about scientists, lawyers etc, the phrase "useful idiots" has a long and interesting history of being applied to those in free democratic societies who collaborate with, or defend, the most obnoxious and repressive regimes. It is absolutely appropriate for Western apologists for political Islam.

If there was any relationship between beating your partner and choosing to wear an item of clothing for religious reasons, you might be right. But there's no relationship, so you're wrong.

There is a very obvious relationship and I'm surprised you choose not to see it. Beating a partner is treating them as a second class citizen, and subjugating them to your whims. Imposing the hijab on women is also treating them as second class citizens (which Islam absolutely does) and is a form of subjugation to the whims of men, who might feel ashamed if "their" women appeared unveiled in public.

Now, you can dress that up as a free choice made for religious reasons all you want, but I'm not buying it. No more than I buy the victim of domestic violence saying s/he deserved it.

 

[Sophrosyne]

I’m long retired, but during my working life I looked forward to weekends and bank holidays.

I always felt that the period from New Year’s Day to St. Patrick’s Day seemed like a hundred years, falling as it did when the weather was at its most dreary and miserable.

A day off during this period would have been most agreeable.

 

[RetirementPlan]

Indeed he doesn't! @Purple is well able to fight his own corner and doesn't need backup. I happen to both agree and disagree with him on various issues. That's life.


Yeah, I wouldn't say "stupid" is the most appropriate way to put it. That's why I went for "stupid or brainwashed" you see. I could have gone for "stupid, brainwashed, indoctrinated, deluded or deceitful" to cover a few more bases, but hey, there's times when brevity beats longwinded but technically accurate.


Ok, fair enough, you don't make judgements on people's mental faculties based on what they say. I believe you if you say so. I don't see why you would refuse to take a relevant statement into account in making a judgement, but so be it if that's the way you operate.


Whatever about "stupid" and I take your point about scientists, lawyers etc, the phrase "useful idiots" has a long and interesting history of being applied to those in free democratic societies who collaborate with, or defend, the most obnoxious and repressive regimes. It is absolutely appropriate for Western apologists for political Islam.


There is a very obvious relationship and I'm surprised you choose not to see it. Beating a partner is treating them as a second class citizen, and subjugating them to your whims. Imposing the hijab on women is also treating them as second class citizens (which Islam absolutely does) and is a form of subjugation to the whims of men, who might feel ashamed if "their" women appeared unveiled in public.

Now, you can dress that up as a free choice made for religious reasons all you want, but I'm not buying it. No more than I buy the victim of domestic violence saying s/he deserved it.

Yes, 'useful idiots' has a long history, that doesn't change the obnoxious nature of the term when used in connection with people who show no sign of being idiots at all. They just have a different view on spiritual matters, and a different belief system. Your positioning of the hijab being 'imposed' is your own tactic, and goes in direct opposition of what the young ladies in the RTE piece said, and what many Muslim women will say to you - often smart women, clever women, assertive women, who make their own choices about their clothing.

 

[odyssey06]

Reminder this is coming... Monday 6th February.

Although annoyingly, the yanks have added another round of NFL games so that weekend doesn't line up with the Superbowl, just as it becomes a holiday here