Never paid Property Tax

Discussion in 'The Local Property Tax' started by Bridgetjazz, 9 Feb 2019.

  1. Bridgetjazz

    Bridgetjazz New Member

    Posts:
    5
    my dad owns a house in Ireland with his brother. It was the family home and they use as a holiday home. They have never registered for property tax. The both live in Scotland. How much will they owe in penalties and tax now? The house is worth about €50000.
    We are worried as the house will be left to us and we will be liable. My dad wants to register and pay the tax but his brother will not.
    We live in England and know little about this tax and hav only just found out about the non payment. Any advice gratefully received.
     
  2. PaddyBloggit

    PaddyBloggit Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    3,212
    Ouch... they could be hit with a lot of penalties. The NPPR tax was first, which has major penalties attached to non-payment of same. The Household Charge came next and we now have the Local Property Tax.

    Details on all schemes:

    https://www.nppr.ie/

    https://www.householdcharge.ie/

    https://www.revenue.ie/en/property/local-property-tax/index.aspx

    Also, property had to be rsgistered for domestic water & water treatment purposes:

    https://www.protectourwater.ie/default.aspx

    Have a read of all and get back with any questions you may have. Both your father and his brother are equally liable for all charges on the property as they are both owners.

    Bottom line, both are liable for all the above. Cheaper is they split the charges (as they should), but Revenue won't care who pays as long as they get their money.

    All this will out when the time comes for the property to be transferred to the next generation. You could be lucky and find that the €50k property will just about pay taxes, fines/penalties and solicitor's fees or be unlucky to find that the estate could be paying more.

    My advice.... get is sorted now. It will cost and cost dear but penalties will pile upon penalties and it won't go away.
     
  3. Saavy99

    Saavy99 Registered User

    Posts:
    23
    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...uthority_charges_on_residential_property.html

    Unpaid nppr remain as a charge in the property for 12 years. If the family wait another few years, won't the charge on the property be lifted?

    On a house valued only 50,000, the yearly property tax charge will be around 100 euro, I have no idea what the penalty for non payment is but definitely the nppr had the most severe penalty for non payment.
     
  4. PaddyBloggit

    PaddyBloggit Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    3,212
    Last edited: 9 Feb 2019
    Saavy is correct (I dug a little) .. The NPPR legislation will be repealed in March 2025 – so any penalties and charges will not be chased after that date.

    Best thing to do at the moment for both your father and uncle is to do nothing until after March 2025 but I'd still look at the Household Charge and LPT issues to see where they stand in relation to those (unofficially of course - read up on them and see what the taxes/penalties are).
     
    Last edited: 9 Feb 2019
    Saavy99 likes this.
  5. Bridgetjazz

    Bridgetjazz New Member

    Posts:
    5
    Thank you for the replies. I will have a read through and try and make sense of it. I know very little about these taxes but would like to advise them to do the right thing and not leave a big mess for everyone to sort out in the future.
     
  6. PaddyBloggit

    PaddyBloggit Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    3,212
    I paid the NPPR as it applied to me and I would always advise people to pay what they owe but in this situation I would be saying to you and your father (and your uncle - but since he doesn't want/intend to pay it makes no difference to him in any case) to hold tough until after March 2025 before you start flagging this with the authorities.

    NPPR charges stand at €7,230 now. After March 2025 that liabilty disappears. Have a look at the Household Charge and the Local Property Tax. Work out what will be owed after March 2025 and see if the figures stack up. By holding off until then, there will be an extra €7,230 in the pot to deal with the HC and the LPT.
     
  7. Bridgetjazz

    Bridgetjazz New Member

    Posts:
    5
    Thank you so much for your helpful replies. It has been difficult as we have only just found out about this. Apparently my dad wanted to register and pay from the beginning but his brother (who is very mean with money) refuses. The houses is very rarely used maybe for a week once a year. My uncle kept saying let’s wait until we get a bill but from what I understand the onus is on the owners of the property to register. Am I right in thinking the NPPR was 2009 -2011 and the household charge was for 2012 and from then on LPT?

    I am trying to calculate the total outstanding.

    I am cross that they have ignored this and there would have been far less to pay if they have done it from the beginning. My uncle is very tricky and he bullies my dad. My uncle says he is it bothered about it and whoever inherits his share (his four adult children) can sort it out. My dad on the other hand would prefer it to be sorted out now. My dad is seeing a solicitor in Ireland in a few weeks to prepare a will for this property. This was the childhood family home and has always been owned by the family so my dad does have a strong emotional attachment to it and it would break his heart for it not to stay in the family for generations going forward. This has come about now as we have been taking to my dad (who is 83) about sorting out his affairs.

    The property does have electricity and they received regular electric bills, although these are mainly standing charge. The house water is supplied by a well and I think they have a septic tank.

    We would hate for the house to be sold to pay the charges and I would rather in a way they paid everything up now and had it over and done with. My uncle has plenty of money and could afford to pay he just does not want to. My dad on the other hand does not have so much money but would want to secure the house to be passed on to us.

    I know my uncle will never come forward and register the property.
    Do you think it is likely the non payment could be picked up some other way?

    I feel like ‘tipping someone off’ so my uncle would have to cough up his share.
     
  8. Clarkey

    Clarkey Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    247
    Total liability as of today is approx. €900 inc. interest re Household charge and L.P.T., N.P.P.R. is only an issue if you want to sell or transfer ownership.
     
  9. Bridgetjazz

    Bridgetjazz New Member

    Posts:
    5
    Thank you - that’s what I have calculated it so must be on the right track!

    If either of the owners of the property pass away between now and 2025 then the property would pass onto the benifeciary’s listed in the will and I presume that would trigger the tax. Who would then be liable for the outstanding tax?
    Would it be the remaining existing owner?
    Or shared between the remaining owner and the new owners?
     
  10. PaddyBloggit

    PaddyBloggit Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    3,212
    Both the beneficiary (the taxes due will have to be settled during the settling of your father's estate) and your uncle but Revenue aren't choosy and will take it all from one or the other.

    Your father's side would probably be caught with it all as that side would be held to ransom to pay it before ownership is transferred.

    The HC and LPT aren't the problem, it's the extortionate penalties attached to the NPPR are the killer.

    I'd still be holding off until after March 2025 and hope that ownership issues don't arise until well after that date.
     
  11. Clarkey

    Clarkey Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    247
    N.P.P.R. liability will reduce annually starting in 2021 with 2009 liability expiring in July 2021 and annually thereafter.
     
  12. Clarkey

    Clarkey Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    247
    YEAR OF CHARGE

    AMOUNT DUE

    2009

    €2070

    2010

    €1830

    2011

    €1470

    2012

    €1110

    2013

    €750



    Total

    €7230
     
  13. Bridgetjazz

    Bridgetjazz New Member

    Posts:
    5
    Thank you so much to you both for taking the time and trouble to reply. I really appreciate your input and it has helped enormously to clarify my research and make sense of it.