My DRN (Debt Relief Notice).

Latest update, I posted all my paperwork on the 15th of NOV.

I had called just before and told MABS I now had everything and would be posting it all in, they said fine.

I heard nothing until Monday, when I received all my paperwork back again. Actually, I received a photocopy of my paperwork.

Because I had not made an appointment, they couldn't continue with the process.

I was not impressed, but I called and got through immediately and a helpful lady said she call me back later.

When she called back she stated that a new appointment has been made for after x-mas. I do not have to resend everything.

There are notes made on the copies, such as 'no evidence of negotiation' , 'no original credit agreement' , credit facility withdrawn' etc. So someone has looked into my case.

In the mean time, especially around children's allowance day I am besieged by calls, which I don't answer, so I am changing my number.

So until the middle of Jan, everything is on hold....again. Its such a long drawn out process. At this rate they will only be dealing with collections companies anyway, not the original creditors.
 
There are notes made on the copies, such as 'no evidence of negotiation' , 'no original credit agreement' , credit facility withdrawn' etc. So someone has looked into my case.

In the mean time, especially around children's allowance day I am besieged by calls, which I don't answer, so I am changing my number.

So until the middle of Jan, everything is on hold....again. Its such a long drawn out process. At this rate they will only be dealing with collections companies anyway, not the original creditors.

I know it's hard, but at least you are getting there. You really are, so think positively. Your problem is you're probably one of the first and it's a new process for everybody. Yes it's a good idea to change your phone number, or only take calls from people you know, you do not need the hassle now and ultimately those collectors know you will not be paying them.

You see the notes made on your documents, it might be an idea between now and your meeting in January to see if you can find those documents, not sure if you need to though. You could ask the people in Mabs, that nice lady you spoke to the other day perhaps. It's always great when you find someone nice and helpful.
 
........... I am besieged by calls, which I don't answer, so I am changing my number.

If you have an android phone look in a free app called MrNumber. It will divert private/unknown/blacklist numbers to your voicemail. Numbers in your phonebook can reach you.
 
Guinea Pig;

In relation to calls.
If they are private numbers do not answer them (hardly ringing to say you won the Lotto!)
If you answer, do not give your date of birth, why should you give that to a stranger?

If you do answer and talk with them , politely tell them (i am with Mabs and they have taken my case and they are busy but will be in touch in the New Year)
Request that any contact in future is in writing, (stay polite.)

If you find yourself being stressed/harassed , simply hang up.

Mabs will get back to you.
I wouldn,t be a fan of changing numbers, it means moving contacts etc.

If you get over the initial calls from Collectors and advise them you are in the Mabs process , they will back off.
 
Thank you for the advice, I'll look into that andriod app, but I have a very basic phone. Really its just the credit Union that keep on ringing, Avant the odd time and I usually answer if its Halifax as they just don't have a clue.

I have found all the correspondence that I made since 2011 with my creditors and printed it off, though the answers to my letters were usually phone calls so it's all a bit one sided from an evidence point of view.

Not much else I can do between now and the middle of Jan anyway.
 
its a few days now since my meeting and it went very well.


There were a few issues, one of my creditors returned my letter unopened 13 weeks after I sent it, so I still need to chase them as I can't proceed until I have the answers to the questions.

I need a screen shot from a car website to prove the market value of of my car. I bought it for €2k and have a hand written receipt from the person I bought it from but thats no good.

The good news is I am living well below the living expenses on the isi website, so no issues there.

As I am only paying 5% of the repayment I should be making, and the Credit Union loan is still accruing interest, there is a danger of me going over the €20,000 limit. But it is a catch 22 situation as I cannot pay anything extra off my CU loan as it would be preferential treatment. This could put the DRN in jeopardy.

Also as of last winter, I owed €1000 arrears to the ESB, after they cut me off I got a meter. 25% of each top up is paid off my bill. As I had spare money (like 3 / 6 euro I was paying this off the bill, this is also preferential treatment and I have to stop as this arrears is also seen as a creditor and the balance (now around 300 euro may be written off)

I don't want this to be written off as if it is Electric Ireland will just cut me off and I don't have €300 as a deposit for another supplier,but I don't have a choice.

I have a list of 9 further documents that I will have to get posted to MABS head office before I can ask for another appointment.

Also the fees were explained to me, €100 to the court and €14 to a solicitor to witness my affidavit.

Its all getting very real now but I only worry about it when I have to go photocopy the documents.

Also no original documents can be sent to MABS which I found weird, you must send photocopies.
 
I cannot believe you've been at this for more than 3 months and it's still not sorted. This is for minor amounts of money with someone who is really struggling.

Electricity

The system should ensure that you do not end up getting cut off. It should be a rule of going into a DRN. Can you clarify, you now have a meter, when you put in say 20 Euro, you get 15 Euro of electricy, and they write 5 Euro off your overdue amount. In addition to this you were also overpaying by 3 to 6 Euro. But Mabs have told you not to pay the 3 to 6 Euro as this is 'overpaying.' Is this correct?

But are you not 'overpaying' by the 25% as well. Therefore they are a 'preferential' creditor in this process. But I guess it's a condition of the meter that they take 25%. That too should not be allowed.

I'm nearly sure that I heard on the radio recently, that one can switch supplier, without paying the previous supplier, someone else might clarify. This might be a solution. You switch, and stop paying the current supplier, let them be taken care of by the DRN and this solves the problem of worrying about being cut off, and having to pay 300 Euro deposit.

Creditors not replying

There should be a rule that if they don't reply, then they get taken out of the the loop and any debt to them is ignored but the debtor now owes nothing. What kind of messing around is it for a creditor to ignore one.

Guinea Pig, who is this creditor?

Credit Union - going over the 20K problem

The ISI/lawmakers should have thought of this, the rule should be when you start the process as long as you are under the 20K than it's fine, so that if the debts go over during the process the debtor is not penalised.

9 more documents


What further documentation could they possible now want from you. Didn't you already supply a load of documents. Are these new documents and what are they.

This is all so very complicated and stressful for you.

Fees

While this might seem low at 100 plus 14, it's a struggle for people on low incomes.

Living below ISI guidelines

Does this mean your excess to pay people is increased, would you be better off if you instead lived at the ISI level?
 
Electricity

Yes, if I am in zero credit and I buy €20, by the time I enter the code into the meter, I will have €15 to cover standing charge and usage.

Because of this set up I am paying ESB above the rate that I am paying the other creditors, obviously I have no choice in the matter, but I cannot add the extra few quid in an effort to get away from the meter, as this is drastically over paying one creditor.

Before you couldnt leave your supplier at all if you had arrears, now you can but you bring your arrears with you. Also if you have a meter, you pretty much cant leave as your new supplier need to remove the meter to install their meter.


Creditors not replying

There should be a rule that if they don't reply, then they get taken out of the the loop and any debt to them is ignored but the debtor now owes nothing. What kind of messing around is it for a creditor to ignore one.

Completely agree, but that is not the case.


Guinea Pig, who is this creditor?

Its Halifax, but it is transferred to a debt collector, when they transferred my account over they made massive mistakes, nobody knows the current balance, thankfully it is > €600.

Credit Union - going over the 20K problem

The ISI/lawmakers should have thought of this, the rule should be when you start the process as long as you are under the 20K than it's fine, so that if the debts go over during the process the debtor is not penalised.

True, especially as 2 creditors immediately transferred my account to debt collectors as soon as I submitted the preformatted MABS letters. These debt collectors can add interest and charges to beat the band. I have ignored any 'charges' they have applied for letters etc and MABS agree with this figure.

The CU charge €10 per letter about arrears, this adds a fair bit when you add interest etc.


9 more documents


What further documentation could they possible now want from you. Didn't you already supply a load of documents. Are these new documents and what are they.

This is all so very complicated and stressful for you.

Fees

While this might seem low at 100 plus 14, it's a struggle for people on low incomes.

I have a plan in place to try get together ASAP.


Living below ISI guidelines

Does this mean your excess to pay people is increased, would you be better off if you instead lived at the ISI level?

No, I looked at the guidelines and I have chosen the 2A + 2 pre-school and 1 car figure and then add the rent.


2vtytxh.jpg


I wasn't sure that they would accept the reason I need a car for work as I work past 11pm (bus time) as a good enough reason.

MABS agreed with me, so thats a relief. I dont need proof from work of my hours or anything, I obviously dont want to tell my colleagues why I'd need a letter about my hours so I was a bit worried about that.

So for us, it was €1407.50 plus (2x66.27) plus rent of €500 per month. total: €2039 per month, we have well south of that figure.

The child benefit is not included.


More documents:

After MABS / ISI published the guidelines they later realised that applicants need their birth cert to prove their nationality.

I was told to included just my drivers, but this is not good enough.

Also as I send off all my documents in Nov, they are now all out of date, so I need my last 12 payslips, up to date utilities bills, receipts etc.
 
Also as I send off all my documents in Nov, they are now all out of date, so I need my last 12 payslips, up to date utilities bills, receipts etc.

OK I guess, but it's a crazy system, we'll put it down to being new.

Are you sure you cannot move ESB to a different supplier, why would the new one need a meter, if you sign up for a DD you should be able to get electricity by bill and with no deposit?

(Should add the bit about the birth cert to the key post on DRN, plus a list of documents needed, by maybe those are on the ISI website or Mabs)
 
I called bord gais, they can only transfer service when esb networks unlock the meter I have, so I cant move till the arrears are cleared.

I cant see the DRN key post but will update if I find it.

There is a massive list of documents, more than 50 but luckily for me as I am applying solely, I don't have as many documents. I will have a full copy of my application in the next few weeks so I can list everything I have had to source.

Also the lady from MABS did say there are about 100 applicants ready to go but they all got delayed with the change in the law in December. Nobody has submitted yet.
 
So for others in the same predicament as you, if you get in trouble with the electricity and get cut off and they want to install a meter, this will mean you cannot switch supplier, so if you're going for a DRN, switch supplier first. Then you have your utility, and the arrears with the first supplier can just wait and be dealt with under the DRN.

I cannot remember, what was the law change in Dec? Is it correct to say that there is no DRN application at all submitted by anyone? When you say submitted, you mean by MABS to the insolvency service?

Information on insolvency (I cannot find a key post on DRN's, maybe there isn't one)

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/...vency-process-service-director-says-1.1651543

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...insolvency/insolvency_service_of_ireland.html

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/e.../personal_insolvency/debt_relief_notices.html

ISI website (reference is made to some legislative change, but I cannot figure out what - odd that in article in the Irish Times, the director of the ISI says no new legislative changes need to be made, I think there have been at least 3 legal changes so far, and I imagine based on the posts on AAM that more changes will have to be made - yesterday we discussed the fact that there is no time period for the OA to dispose of his interest in a bankrupt person's house etc)

[broken link removed]

[broken link removed]

On page 7 of the above document, it has 3 lists, debts included, debts that cannot be included, but the 3rd category is debts that requires the creditor's consent. Basically it's taxes. Something for those seeking a DRN to be aware of.

First step seems to be to go to MABS, who are called AI's by the ISI. Mabs are supposed to guide you throught the process. Basically seems you have to fill out a form, contact all your creditors for how much you owe, submit all to Mabs, who check it and send the application to the ISI, who I suppose again check it and probably come back to Mabs with questions about the application, and eventually ISI sends it to court for approval, once approved your put up on the ISI website with your name in lights. It lasts 3 years, when you will be given a certificate of discharge and removed from the ISI website.

[broken link removed]

I cannot find the register on the ISI website, only the above link. But Guinea Pig said she had consulted it?
 
[broken link removed]

Register of DRN, I just searched for popular irish names to see is anyone had been successful!

I mean nobody has has their file submitted to the ISI by the AI(MABS).

And yes, your action in relation to the utilities is the best action, I hadn't even considered this.

First step seems to be to go to MABS, who are called AI's by the ISI. Mabs are supposed to guide you throught the process. Basically seems you have to fill out a form, contact all your creditors for how much you owe, submit all to Mabs, who check it and send the application to the ISI, who I suppose again check it and probably come back to Mabs with questions and them to the application, and eventually ISI sends it to court for approval, once approved your put up on the ISI website with your name in lights. It lasts 3 years, when you will be given a certificate of discharge and removed from the ISI website.

Pretty much, but access to the AIs are through an appointment system controlled by MABS, this lengthen the time between each appointment as you are only considered for an appointment when you have all the required documentation.

I think the change in law was discussed on newstalk, possibly on Down to Business. I'll see it I can pull it out.
 
Yes do see if you can figure out the legal change.

How did you find dealing with Mabs, were they helpful, knowledgeable, kind, easy to deal with. Would you consider Mabs a good organisation?

Were there any negatives, anything that could be improved?
 
Well, the Credit Union called to my home today.

Thankfully I wasn't there, but they left a note asking me to call the credit control dept.

All I can think of doing is, writing to them telling them that I am pursuing a DRN and that I am awaiting the appointment of MABS to act on my behalf.

I would hate to have to have a meeting at my house as I would not feel comfortable asking the person if I could record the meeting, I prefer a phone call as it is automatically recorded.

When he spoke to my partner he said he wasn't a debt collector etc but that he called out as he couldn't get in touch with me.....because I stopped answering the phone after I wrote to the Credit Union and told them that I was working with MABS and would be in touch before the end of Feb.

How did you find dealing with Mabs, were they helpful, knowledgeable, kind, easy to deal with. Would you consider Mabs a good organisation?

From my limited experience with my AI, I would have no complaints, I was certainly treated with care and respect and empathy. I do get the feeling that this is all new but questions are recorded and answers researched.

Were there any negatives, anything that could be improved?

My only issue is the appointment system,but I completely understand why it is in place.
 
So roll on 2 months and I submitted all the documents requested at the meeting and updated bank statements and payslips as they other ones were out of date.

The MABS appointment system automatically cancelled the DRN application due to in activity and I had to call to reactivate it again.

And so last week I received another request for another 8 documents and reason for credit and IBAN codes for each creditor.

I would really like to hear from anyone else that has managed to get through this process... if they exist.
 
As of last week, everything is submitted and in the the AI's opinion if there are any issues with anything I have submitted the ISI will get back to her by email ASAP and she would have contacted me, so all seems OK.

My file will now be submitted to the district court at its next sitting by the ISI and I should get notification of the granting of the DRN in the post and the three year clock starts ticking from then.

I still can't get clarification if my debt is wiped from the district court date or the date three years hence. I will just have to apply for an updated ICB report to see.

The submission process in all took 4 hours. 2 hours in the morning and 2 hours in the evening.

The main issue that kept coming back was the situation with my partner, all debts are in my name, he pays me an amount per week and I pay all bills / household bills out of that. So for my income I put down my income from my employment and the contribution from my partner. The ISI seems to like this and have had issues with the vast array of different ways non married people finance their household expenses. My AI hinted that my set up may end up on new published guidelines in the future as they like the way it looks from an accounting point of view.

I think in the end we were up to 450 sheets of paper in my file! My application was only about 30 sheets.

Total cost €100 for the AI service and €10 for a solicitor to act a witness.

So now I just wait....
 
Have been following your progress with interest Guinea Pig, thanks for sharing with us. Fingers crossed now and good luck :)
 
[broken link removed]

Register of DRN, I just searched for popular irish names to see is anyone had been successful!

I mean nobody has has their file submitted to the ISI by the AI(MABS).

Hi Guinea Pig

Your story is really informative and will be helpful to others. Although, I hope it won't discourage others from applying.

According to the attached extract from the ISI Quarterly report, the figures are as follows up to the end of Quarter 1.

Applications for Debt Relief Notices|82
DRNs issued by courts|36
It might not sound a lot, but it is a lot more than the DSAs and PIAs released.

I wouldn't trust the Register. If I applied as Brendán Burgess, or Brendán Brugha, I probably wouldn't come up if you searched for Brendan Burgess.

I tried a few B Murphy and M O'Neill type names, but none came up.


Brendan
 

Attachments

  • DRN statistics Q1.pdf
    103 KB · Views: 953
Back
Top