My Boss is trying to get rid of me

Discussion in 'Work, Careers, Employment rights, further study' started by galaxyman, Mar 30, 2008.

  1. galaxyman

    galaxyman Registered User

    Hi everybody,any advice please!.have worked for same company 25 years three weeks ago my boss said he wanted me gone and offered 40k redundancy,I said I was shocked and asked him to put same in writing,when letter arrived he called it an ex gratia payment and said my employment can no longer continue!.I went into shock and went to doctor,when I came back to work he asked me to accept his offer.I declined and he sent me home,I went back to doctor who has me out on work related stress.My boss tried to make me go to his friend who is company doctor,I said I would eventually.
    Whilst out on another cert he dismissed me saying it wasn't a valid excuse as he wanted me to come for a disciplinary hearing on a made up crap about not giving satisfactory work although he has been giving me work performance bonus for the last 4 years?.any advice???
  2. agencydude

    agencydude Frequent Poster

    I think you need to talk to a solicitor that is an expert at employment law. Or if you're a member of a trade union , talk to someone in the trade union.

    I think you also need to you look at your employment contract you signed 25yrs ago and see what it says about termination of employment.

    If its a small company and you can't be redeployed to another department it might be ackward or stressful working with your boss if you tried to stay on.
    So it might be worth your while trying to get as much money out of them and move on.
    Is your boss a director in the company?
    Or does he have a boss above him? It might be worth checking out what other senior people in the company think of what he is doing. If he is a company director he probably thinks he can do whatever he wants.

    You say he offered redundancy but then in the letter it said ex gratia payment. You only get redundancy if the company has no more work for you to do.

    If he is now saying you're no good at your work then he has to follow a dismissal procedure. You should have an understanding of what the dismissal procedure is. It may be defined in your contract of employment.
    Typically it would be something like the following: He has to go through a process where he warns you first and gives you the chance to improve. This has to be documented. Then if this doesn't work he has to send you letters of warning that your job is on the line. If he hasn't followed any procedure like this, then this could be seen as an unfair dismissal or wrongful dismissal .

    You'd want to be careful here about getting a lump sum for unfair dismissal or wrongful dismissal. You may have to pay tax on it. Check this out with your solicitor.

    For an unfair or wrongful dismissal you should be looking to get a min of 6 months salary.

    Also when dealing with a solicitor you should try and make a deal so that the solicitor fees are added to your compensation . ie your boss should pay your compensation PLUS your legal expenses. You should try and get this if its an unfair or wrongful dismissal.

    Also if solicitors get involved the whole process could take ages to sort out, so you might as well type up your cv now and start looking around for work elsewhere.

    Also if you do eventually agree to accept a lump sum payment and move on make sure you get a good written job reference from your boss as part of the agreement.

    Hope this helps.
  3. Purple

    Purple Frequent Poster

    All very strange.
    He is not in a position to say if the cert is valid or not.
    It sounds like you are being treated very badly.
    As advised I would go to a solicitor and get some advice. Do not get your solicitor actively involved at this stage but do explain things. It might be a good idea to write it all out and send it via post or e-mail to the solicitor before the meeting. This gives a good linear view of what has happened.
  4. crumdub12

    crumdub12 Frequent Poster

    What was company doctors opinion, did it differ from original doctor ??

    It is important you know the answer.

    Are you looking for job back, or to get maximum severance possible ....

    Go to , they will put you in contact with good industrial relations solicitor in your area

    Do not worry , you have lodged a complaint on your dismissal in writing to company (if not, do it), registered letter would be advisable.

    Keep all letters from company, check policies regarding warnings / dismissals in company ..
  5. aidan119

    aidan119 Frequent Poster

    I'm guessing this is a small company with no sense of procedure, based on the way your boss has handled this.

    A key issue is whether he making you redundant or your position redundant. If it is the position that is being made redundant then there is not much you can do unless there is some policy or general understanding about a "last in first out" for similar people in the position. He should give proper notice or pay in lieu of such notice. Legally he only has to give you statutory redundancy and 40k would more than cover this for 25 yrs service.

    If he intends to hire a new person afterwards then he is making you redundant and you have a good case for either following unfair dismissal route or negotiating a better exit package.

    Did he give you the official notice of redundancy, RP1 form i think it is.
    The fact that you went sick after being told about the redundancy is a bit of a red herring and is confusing the case. He had already said he was making you redundant.

    If you follow an unfair dismissal case the max you can get under the act is 2 yrs salary. But this is very seldom awarded. I don't know what your current salary is but balance this ( say 1.5 times ) against the 40k offer.

    It may be hard to accept, but if he doesn't want you there then you need to get out. Life will be too stressful. After you accept this fact it is down to negotiation. He has already offered 40k, maybe you could negotiate it up to 60 or more. Depends on your current salary. He probably realises that he has made a bit of a mess of this already. This is to your favour. Then you make a clean start.

    Even after an unfair dissmisal case you will still have to make a clean start. Much easier to go into a job interview saying you were made redundant because of economy slowdown with a reference than trying to hide the fact that you took an unfair dismissal case. However right you feel you were to take the case a future employer may not see it that way.
  6. galaxyman

    galaxyman Registered User

    guys and girls,thanks for all the replies.Just to clarify a few,my position is not redundant,he just thinks he is paying me too much and he thinks that he can maintain my job by using cheaper staff that are already there.
    He has been paying me,albeit it reluctantly a annual bonus based on increased sales,which have been going up year on year.
    two.its a small company with maybe 15 staff,he is owner and director,no contract was ever signed and no terms and conditions were ever put in place,we have no safety statement,no greivance procedure,no payment of wages policy and so on.
    in 5 yeras the whole staff have had an accumalated wage increase of no more than 6%?.I had asked that his redundancy offer be put in writing and after bullying and harrasssing me,I went to my doctor shocked and stressed,who told me to take a week off,he sent me a letter calling it an ex gratia payment which was confusing?,in the same letter he alluded to the fact that my employment could not continue for various made up reasons,which are blatant lies,when I returned to work after a week of severe stress,he asked me was I accepting the offer,I said I couldn't as I had too many financial commitments,he sent me home on full pay and in that week I received a series of emails,texts and letters which were designed to discredit me with colleauges,customers and suppliers.he said that he had launched an investigation with some of my customers and wanted me to appear to a disciplinary meeting where a decision would be made about my future,although he said it would be conducted under the IBEC code of practice,no copy of said practice was given to me and I didn't even know we were in IBEC.
    my advisors have written to him asking for copies of all the relevant documentation,such as terms and conditions,safety statement,bullying and harrasment statement,saftey and welfare at work act,and so on but he just sent an email saying he wasn't obliged to do so and wouldn't be doing so.
    finally,whilst still out on sick cert,he sent another email,demanding my presence at a reconvened disciplinary hearing and if I sent another sick cert in that this was not a valid reason and a decision would be made in my absence which was made last week saying,the company has decide to dismiss you.
    sorry for the long winded reply but this is really stressing me out!any further thoughts would be greatly appreciated?
  7. Diziet

    Diziet Frequent Poster

    yes - take your solicitor with you at the next meeting. You need to have an end figure in mind and negotiate with that in mind. Make sure your solicitor is an expert in employment law.

    Your solicitor needs to get aggressive I feel and make it crystal clear that this will go to tribunal unless amicably resolved.

    Keep a detailed diary and copies of all emails, texts, correspondence etc.

    Realistically, you will not be happy working there any longer (at least not if you want to preserve your health), so the objective is to get a good, tax efficient payout.
  8. paddyodoors

    paddyodoors Frequent Poster

    Wow you have worked there for 25years? Is the boss who is trying to get rid of you the same one as when you started?

    Its all relative but 40K sounds like a good payout, what role is it? and what are your earnings per annum?

    If he is saying that he can maintain your job using existing staff - then I assume that this would fall under the heading of your role being made redundant.

    Either way I agree with other posters that is will be difficult to remain there now due to ill feeling, so get a good employment law solicitor and get the max payout and as mentioned by agencydude - a good reference

    Do you think that you will have difficulty finding similar work elsewhere? have a look through some of the job website and see what similar roles are on offer and what experience they require - am sure you would have it covered.

    Personally I'd love a 40k payoff, and just move onto a similar job down the road...

  9. rogeroleary

    rogeroleary Frequent Poster

    - Straight away - that's unfair dismissal. Total breach of procedures and his legal people / IBEC will advise him of same. Max compensation is 2 years salary and you could get reinstated but that's probably not desireable as trust has completely broken down.

    Regarding the 40k while it might sound like a lot to some people, if it were really a redundancy payment (and this does not sound like a redundancy situation) there would be tax benefits. If its just and ex-gratia payment the tax could be painful.

    If you depict this scenario accurately I think you could take this guy to the cleaners - after 25 years of service I reckon he deserves it. Make sure to get an expert in employment legislation to represent you.

  10. wazee1974

    wazee1974 Registered User

    My God, that sort of treatment after 25 years service!!!!!!!! Exactly why did you stay for 25 years in that environment.

    I think you should get organised and seriously get some legal advice.....
    Since you are officially still an employee then you should have access to all the relevant procedures regarding greviance, bullying etc.

    If hes putting you on "Garden" leave then you are still entitled to all the benefits of an employee until your notice period is over.

    Personally 40k after 25 years is pretty paltry..
  11. galaxyman

    galaxyman Registered User

    Hi guys and gals,My p45 arrived today and was told that its my perogative to appeal but they gave me no way of appealing?
    they are still saying they are not obliged to respond to my representatives?.
    I'm a bit lost here gys/gals!.feel really down!
  12. NicolaM

    NicolaM Frequent Poster

    Hi Galaxyman
    They sound like a right bunch, it's a really unpleasant way to be treated.
    Have you spoken to a solicitor yet? It looks like that might be the best way to go to get further advise and help?
    Hope it works out ok for you,
  13. galaxyman

    galaxyman Registered User

    have been advised by two good guys who suggest civil court just have to sit tight until they come back
  14. lightup

    lightup Frequent Poster

    In the meantime document everything. Make sure you have copies of all correspondence. Write down times, dates and contents of all phonecalls, discussions and meetings since the problems began.
  15. Diziet

    Diziet Frequent Poster

    You only have a limited time to appeal unfair dismissal (6 months I think, but check). So you need to get this in motion as soon as possible.

    I am surprised by the civil court suggestion. It has its place, but it is an expensive and slow option. Labour court of rights commissioner are alternatives. Mind you, court summons concentrate the mind!

    Whatever you do, do not let the unfair dismissal timescale lapse.
  16. becky

    becky Frequent Poster


    The courts prefer that people use the labour court/Rights Commissioners first as these people are the experts. They are also the cheaper option- that €40K would not last long using the civil courts.
  17. galaxyman

    galaxyman Registered User

    Hi Becky, I don't even have the 40k as he pulled it!
  18. Black Sheep

    Black Sheep Frequent Poster

    It appears to me that is a clear case for Redundancy. Your say he will be using cheaper staff that are already there so you are "surplus to requirements" and therefore your position no longer exists.

    Therefore you are entitled to your Statutory Redundancy even if he has pulled the earlier €40k which was an ex-gratia payment ie. above and beyond the Statutory payment.

    As other posters have said get a good Employment Law solicitor and think carefully what outcome you are working towards. Working for that employer is never an option again.

    Best of luck
  19. michaelm

    michaelm Frequent Poster

    I have to disagree with this. It's clearly unfair dismissal and you should be looking at up to two years wages in the Labour Court. Sounds like you're better off (health-wise) out of that situation.
  20. galaxyman

    galaxyman Registered User

    A little update on this people,they have sent me my p45 with my 8 weeks notice pay and says that I can to appeal which is my perogative but he won't still recognize my representatives and won't be answering any requests for documentation relating to my employment? he says I'm sure your legal reps can deal with issues raised by my representatives?
    Does he have a right to do this???