Missing A.S.U. phone recordings

TrackerThieves

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I have an ongoing tracker case with EBS/AIB which has a number of other issues. I did a Subject access request back in December 2017 on my mortgage account.
From this i identified 14 possible calls i was interested in getting recordings of. I filled out a form with exact dates and times identified in the documents received. I recieved a CD containing 5 calls with a letter stating "Please find enclosed a CD with the calls you requested". When i questioned with the S.A.R.S. team where the missing calls where they, i was told there's no record of them or they just aren't there and passed the blame to the A.S.U. as they put the CD together. I asked them to follow up to where they were.

I received a registered letter this week stating "In relation to your initial request and the 5 calls you received on CD, we have received confirmation that these are the only calls that can be located on our system in relation to the 14 you requested."

After checking my documents again 6 of the missing 9 are definitely phonecalls between myself and an arrears support unit member and all where between dates in 2015-2016, the other 3 i am not to sure if they were calls or other correspondence. So is possible that i am only missing 6.

This is taken from the code of conduct on mortgage arrears
63. A lender must maintain records of all communications with borrowers in mortgage arrears and in pre-arrears. Such records must be readily accessible and capable of being reproduced in legible form and in a timely manner. Such records may include contemporaneous notes of meetings.
64. A lender must maintain recordings of all Arrears Support Unit telephone calls made to or from a borrower in relation to his/her arrears or pre-arrears.
65. All records required by, and demonstrating compliance with this Code, must be retained by the lender for six years. In addition, all records relating to a borrower must be retained for six years from the date the relationship with the borrower ends.

Is it Acceptable that these calls are not available and what can be done?
Has anyone had similar experiences?
 

EbsLoannotrafor

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Yes , I requested back ( ebs) when I went from tracker to fixed and when I told I had no tracker option so had to fix . Conveniently these key calls can’t be found( it was a number of years ago ) but I had the date etc . Unacceptable that more recent 2015 -2016 are missing , can this be reported to the regulator??
 

maunie

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107
This makes very interesting reading. I'm BOI and have requested my calls log from arrears team. I've only requested it last week so I'm not very intrigued as to what will happen..
 

IdesofMarch

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290
I have an ongoing tracker case with EBS/AIB which has a number of other issues. I did a Subject access request back in December 2017 on my mortgage account.
From this i identified 14 possible calls i was interested in getting recordings of. I filled out a form with exact dates and times identified in the documents received. I recieved a CD containing 5 calls with a letter stating "Please find enclosed a CD with the calls you requested". When i questioned with the S.A.R.S. team where the missing calls where they, i was told there's no record of them or they just aren't there and passed the blame to the A.S.U. as they put the CD together. I asked them to follow up to where they were.

I received a registered letter this week stating "In relation to your initial request and the 5 calls you received on CD, we have received confirmation that these are the only calls that can be located on our system in relation to the 14 you requested."

After checking my documents again 6 of the missing 9 are definitely phonecalls between myself and an arrears support unit member and all where between dates in 2015-2016, the other 3 i am not to sure if they were calls or other correspondence. So is possible that i am only missing 6.

This is taken from the code of conduct on mortgage arrears
63. A lender must maintain records of all communications with borrowers in mortgage arrears and in pre-arrears. Such records must be readily accessible and capable of being reproduced in legible form and in a timely manner. Such records may include contemporaneous notes of meetings.
64. A lender must maintain recordings of all Arrears Support Unit telephone calls made to or from a borrower in relation to his/her arrears or pre-arrears.
65. All records required by, and demonstrating compliance with this Code, must be retained by the lender for six years. In addition, all records relating to a borrower must be retained for six years from the date the relationship with the borrower ends.

Is it Acceptable that these calls are not available and what can be done?
Has anyone had similar experiences?
TrackerThieves,


The Code of Conduct on Mortgage Arrears Provides that "A lender must maintain recordings of all Arrears Support Unit telephone calls made to or from a borrower in relation to his/her arrears or pre-arrears." and that "All records required by, and demonstrating compliance with this Code, must be retained by the lender for six years. In addition, all records relating to a borrower must be retained for six years from the date the relationship with the borrower ends."

If the Bank insist that they cannot retrieve the particular telephone conversations that you require, make a complaint to the Central Bank of Ireland in relation to this. On another front, get your telephone or mobile telephone service provider to provide a log of your calls on the particular dates in question, this will show that you were in fact in contact with the EBS.
 
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IdesofMarch

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290
Yes , I requested back ( ebs) when I went from tracker to fixed and when I told I had no tracker option so had to fix . Conveniently these key calls can’t be found( it was a number of years ago ) but I had the date etc . Unacceptable that more recent 2015 -2016 are missing , can this be reported to the regulator??

see above post, provisions 61 to 65 of the CCMA 2013 refers.
 

maunie

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107
Very interesting. Another way the banks are trying to wrong us
 
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TrackerThieves

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at the min there are 2 calls confirmed as not available/missing and being 2 disputed, They say they were not calls but documents i have they are clearly calls. I have spent the week going through my documents and have identified a number of other calls to request and i expect some of these will not be available/missing too.

on a side note has anyone ever been contacted by an Arrears support member from a mobile number and should this have ever happened?
 

MrEarl

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Very interesting. Another way the banks are trying to wrong us
To be fair, the calls may have been deleted by accident, there's nothing to prove that these calls have been deliberately erased ... none of us are perfect after all :)

That said, in the absence of the call recording having been made available, I expect that the borrower's word will have to be accepted as to what was said on the call.
 

IdesofMarch

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290
To be fair, the calls may have been deleted by accident, there's nothing to prove that these calls have been deliberately erased ... none of us are perfect after all :)

That said, in the absence of the call recording having been made available, I expect that the borrower's word will have to be accepted as to what was said on the call.
Mr Earl, you have highlighted the knub of the issue, if a debtor can prove a call was made on a particular date or time and the bank or F.I. cannot retrieve same (as required by CCMA), the alleged contents of the call must favour the borrower's account of same.
 

maunie

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107
I am Anxious about getting my recordings of my calls from arrears team in BOI
I've a feeling some of mine will strangely disappear also.,
For the record.. I missed one payment in 10 years
 

TrackerThieves

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To be fair, the calls may have been deleted by accident, there's nothing to prove that these calls have been deliberately erased ... none of us are perfect after all :)
I strongly suspect it has been on purpose, Would like to discuss with Padraic and get confirmation on a number of things first

Mr Earl, you have highlighted the knub of the issue, if a debtor can prove a call was made on a particular date or time and the bank or F.I. cannot retrieve same (as required by CCMA), the alleged contents of the call must favour the borrower's account of same.
Is this in the code of conduct or some sort of legal reverence?
 

maunie

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While I'm BOI customer I'd like to share what happened to me so far
I typed a letter to data protection and asked them to forward my info on my arrears of my mortgage
Yest my letter was returned to me saying I didn't sign my letter..
A delay tactics me thinks
 

MrEarl

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1,727
While I'm BOI customer I'd like to share what happened to me so far
I typed a letter to data protection and asked them to forward my info on my arrears of my mortgage
Yest my letter was returned to me saying I didn't sign my letter..
A delay tactics me thinks
Some of the conspiracy theories are just incredible....

An unsigned instruction doesn't get acted upon, and rightly so. There is a very long list of things that we can all point to the Banks as doing, or having done, wrong. However, this isn't one of them.

Perhaps you should ask yourself if the delay has been caused by you not signing your own letter ? :)


.
 

Palerider

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1,391
While I'm BOI customer I'd like to share what happened to me so far
I typed a letter to data protection and asked them to forward my info on my arrears of my mortgage
Yest my letter was returned to me saying I didn't sign my letter..
A delay tactics me thinks
What have we become, who do we blame when there is nobody else to blame except ourselves.
 

maunie

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What have we become, who do we blame when there is nobody else to blame except ourselves.
Just to clarify
Every time I wrote to the tracker redress about my case I never once signed a typed letter. I simply typed a letter and put my name on the bottom of it and there was never an issue with it but thanks for your thoughts
 

TrackerThieves

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Just an update, after making some further phone recording requests, I have received a number of new calls but the the number of missing calls has now increased. There were also 3 calls made by an A.S.U. case manager that were made on a system he knew wasn't been recorded, these are not included the figures below. all requested calls were over a 2 year time period and 5/6 missing and 3 non recorded calls took place in the same 9 month period.
Recieved = 13
Missing = 5
Disputed = 1
 
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TrackerThieves

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The number of missing call recordings confirmed missing is now 23 (all calls are from a 9 month period from 2014-2015)
13 with the EBS arrears support unit - 5 with me, 5 with Padraic Kissane and 3 with a third party called Moneybloom
10 with AIB RCMU department - 4 with me and 6 were with Moneybloom.

I have a separate EBS document with details and notes of each call. I now have records of about 10 AIB calls that they spent months telling me there were no records of. After getting information from a different department that these calls existed, they have now provided dates and notes but still no recordings. There's also missing documents and records requested in relation to both accounts. There's also no records of documents from a 2008 tracker mortgage application. There are also missing records and documents from 2008 for another EBS customers subject access request that was done in relation to our tracker case. As there were so many requests that they could not provide the sar's team took it upon them selves to make a complaint on my behalf.

I am in the process of taking cases with both the data commissioner and the FSO.
There is also a number of other more serious issues during this same period that I will be asking the FSO to investigate.
 

cmalone

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265
Similar issue with bank of ireland. They claimed data protection access request must state times/ dates etc of calls. Provided this and no response.

Complained to Data Protection Commissioner and they initially claimed that no call records and records of any calls and follow up was by way of temporary notes/ post its/ etc.

when I further complained - and advise ODPC that call centre staff always referred to my previous calls via the bank’s system, the bank mysteriously ‘found’ over 160 calls - 2 years later !

Don’t trust or accept anything the bank says... they are just denying basic records in an attempt to frustrate your valid queries on account. Risk that records held will be altered / deleted by the time they eventually are forced to produce by the Data Protection Commissioner.

Multiple current active cases against the bank by the ODPC.
 

moneymakeover

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459
I also was unable to retrieve phone calls from Bank of Ireland

I know the exact time of the call

It's mentioned in the notes of the SAR

But they say cannot be retrieved
 
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