Minister says tax measures may be needed to keep landlords from exiting the rental market,

269 full properties available from June 4 - June 11. So nearly 9 times the number of rental properties on Daft. That was for 4 adults. 306 when you input for 2 adults.
 
dereko1969 said:
269 full properties available from June 4 - June 11. So nearly 9 times the number of rental properties on Daft. That was for 4 adults. 306 when you input for 2 adults.
Click to expand...
Some difference in fairness between that and 1,959. Strip out the glamping pods, yurts, granny flats, student residences etc from the 269 and the gap will close further,
 
I'm not sure what criteria the person used on twitter it was just a flat comparison. From the first couple of pages on Airbnb there didn't seem to be m/any yurts/granny flats. I think it's safe to say there are multiples on Airbnb than are available on Daft.
 
dereko1969 said:
I'm not sure what criteria the person used on twitter it was just a flat comparison. From the first couple of pages on Airbnb there didn't seem to be m/any yurts/granny flats. I think it's safe to say there are multiples on Airbnb than are available on Daft.
Click to expand...
Yes but if you add even 269 new units to the Kerry rental market, would it make a blind bit of difference to market rents? And bear in mind that Kerry is a heavily touristed county.
 
T McGibney said:
I know where you're coming from but think it's still worth noting:


There's no way that anything near 50% are easily reinhabitable. It appears a bigger problem than it is because the planning system incentivises their retention even in a derelict state. It's much easier to get planning for a new build if there is an existing building on the site.

Agreed.

You kinda did though. :)

Agreed. A very generous Section 23-type tax relief such as applied in the Rural Renewal Scheme area during the Celtic Tiger era would do the trick, but there seems to be little appetite for this.

Sooner or later we are going to have to build our way out of this.
Click to expand...
I'm not trying to single out this section of the housing market but it's an issue as is the number of county councils that have unoccupied properties........and multiple other factors

Everything should be on the table if we are going to fix anything, but I fear it won't happen.
 
There was a discussion on the radio today on RTE Joe Duffy and a landlord at the end of the program summed it all up. He had 10 properties and sold the lot.
He said if he charged €1000 per month after taxes, usc of 6%, property tax he ended up with €200or less. If one tenant did not pay then that was it. Just not worth it.
 
Sconeandjam said:
There was a discussion on the radio today on RTE Joe Duffy and a landlord at the end of the program summed it all up. He had 10 properties and sold the lot.
He said if he charged €1000 per month after taxes, usc of 6%, property tax he ended up with €200or less. If one tenant did not pay then that was it. Just not worth it.
Click to expand...
I think in the budget they will allow property tax to be tax deductible and possibly reduce taxation to 20% plus prsi and USC. Also reintroduce the tax credit for renters.

They need to stop haemorrhaging small landlords and keep rental sector alive. And who knows, they might actually attract small landlords into the sector too.

The problem can't be fixed by hammering these landlords who by and large are charging well below market rent in a lot of instances.
 
PebbleBeach2020 said:
I think in the budget they will allow property tax to be tax deductible and possibly reduce taxation to 20% plus prsi and USC. Also reintroduce the tax credit for renters.

They need to stop haemorrhaging small landlords and keep rental sector alive. And who knows, they might actually attract small landlords into the sector too.

The problem can't be fixed by hammering these landlords who by and large are charging well below market rent in a lot of instances.
Click to expand...
Might be too late. There is always a sting in the tail.
The Government want charities, housing associations and large companies renting out houses.

The Government do not want to build and manage council properties. They have some tenants that have not paid their rent in their existing stock. I know if they did what they do in England the rent would be paid. If you don’t pay your rent you have deemed to have made yourself homeless and the council will not help. You are offered only hostel or B and B if your lucky but you could be moved from your area out to the middle of nowhere.

Pity RTB can’t do this and speed up the eviction process. I know of landlords tied up with Rtb and in courts for years with non paying tenants. The tenant say they have no where to go and Rtb allow them to stay for a few more months before the next hearing. No rent paid in the mean time.
The big landlords have no personal connection to the tenant. Lost job can’t pay rent get out. Many landlords with one or two properties looked after their tenants and dropped rent and now stuck with below market rent.

If the Government could allow landlords to bring their property up to market rent that would really help. This is in the case of where landlords have not increased rents for many years and rpz were brought in. Saying now you can only increase by a percentage on not 4% yearly is really hitting these landlords. They did after all looked after their tenants.
 
PebbleBeach2020 said:
I think in the budget they will allow property tax to be tax deductible and possibly reduce taxation to 20% plus prsi and USC. Also reintroduce the tax credit for renters.

They need to stop haemorrhaging small landlords and keep rental sector alive. And who knows, they might actually attract small landlords into the sector too.

The problem can't be fixed by hammering these landlords who by and large are charging well below market rent in a lot of instances.
Click to expand...
Pity the Government will not allow the resetting of rents once a long term tenant has moved on.

At the moment you have to have a house sitting idle for 2 years in order for this to happen. It would take a number of years to get back the two years lost rent even if it was well below the market rent.
 
Sconeandjam said:
Pity the Government will not allow the resetting of rents once a long term tenant has moved on.

At the moment you have to have a house sitting idle for 2 years in order for this to happen. It would take a number of years to get back the two years lost rent even if it was well below the market rent.
Click to expand...
That would be political suicide and would allow the howls of all sorts of nonsense from charities, SF, the left ........always remember landlords are evil people and are the same as the landlords that forced our ancestors out of hovels to die in a field or worse emigrate.
 
PebbleBeach2020 said:
You need lower tax rates on landlords (small landlords with one or two properties).

You need higher tax rates on institutional landlords and reits.

You need an ability for landlords to get bad tenants out of their property quickly. It's a joke taking two years with no payment etc.

If the government act quickly they can stem the tide and maybe attract new landlords into the sector.
Click to expand...
You've left out one thing: a friendly lending market. One of the reasons there were so many people with 2nd properties in the first place was that we had a lending market that incentivised it. Now very few non institutional landlords get BTL mortgages. Its not really possible for anybody to enter the market without inheriting a rented property now.
 
PebbleBeach2020 said:
make LPT tax deductible yes. You could have rental income not liable for USC and PRSI (reducing effective tax rate on many 'mom and pop' landlords by 11%. If they want equality of treatment for all landlords then charging one group 51% tax rate and the other larger institutional landlords 12.5% (if even that!) then it's not really fair. Also, I would suggest that new tenancies, which are the ones increasing by 10% a year according to reports, are dominated by larger institutional type landlords, whereas 'mom and pop' landlords are often charging way under market rent as a result of being nice to previous/current tenants and not raising rents due to tenants being general good tenants anyway.

To help current small landlords,the government needs to do in on the taxation side or else helping to speed up the removal of bad tenants and instead of giving landlords nothing but "responsibilities" give them some "rights" would also help.
Click to expand...
Perhaps relating tax paid to the actual rent value (like VAT) rather than income tax? It might be controversial but it would reward landlords who haven't hiked rent and are now locked into rents far beneath market rates.
 
Paul O Mahoney said:
That would be political suicide and would allow the howls of all sorts of nonsense from charities, SF, the left ........always remember landlords are evil people and are the same as the landlords that forced our ancestors out of hovels to die in a field or worse emigrate.
Click to expand...
I guarantee that many of those people are landlords themselves and quietly have no issue doing exactly as they please. It usually takes me 5 minutes to shift a conversation about how terribly unfair these high rents are to how unfair it is that the persons parent has to deal with this horrible tenant etc. 1 in 5 people own second properties: that's a lot of people with a stake in the game.
 
Cancel/ reverse indefinite tenancies.
Allow landlords to end further part 4 tenancies. There the nail in the coffin.
The notes in the headlines saying SF want tenants to have the right to stay in the property if the landlord sells. Populist view but can devalue property prices. Banks will not lend without vacant possession.
Reduce cgt on sale of properties. Might help those who want to sell and another landlord buy.

Have to say again to allow the resetting of rents for those landlords that kept the rents low And want to sell.
We are selling a house ( tenant there nearly 12 years and we have not increased the rent in 6 years) and rents half the going rate but we know if will be a person who wants this house to live in and not rent out. It will be a starter home or down sizer.
 
Nordkapp said:
Good article by Fiona Reddan in the Irish Times today on incentives to keep private small landlords in the rental market. I think it captures the main points.


Tax incentives for landlords? How very 1990s

www.irishtimes.com

Seven options to ease the tax burden chasing smaller landlords out of the market

Exodus of small-time landlords risks escalating housing crisis. Here is what the State can do
www.irishtimes.com www.irishtimes.com
Click to expand...
We can't really sneer at the 1990s though, a decade when we more or less got things right in relation to rental and other housing availability.
 
The only thing that will encourage me to stay in the market is the removal of the threat that landlords would have to sell with tenants in situ. I have 3 rental properties. One is currently up for sale with another to follow next year. I'll consider selling the final property just before the next election.
 
Nordkapp said:
Good article by Fiona Reddan in the Irish Times today on incentives to keep private small landlords in the rental market. I think it captures the main points.
Click to expand...
It's a nice article that sets out all the options. I think policymakers need to decide whether they want to keep fiddling or do something radical.

Fiddling
  1. Allow LPT deducibility
  2. Full relief on mortgage interest
  3. Section 23-type reliefs
  4. Making rental profits eligible for pension contributions
  5. Reduce CGT rate

Radical
Tax all rental income at a flat rate of something like 25%. completely separately from other income. No deductions for anything except perhaps major renovations with the relief spread over several years. No CGT.

My guess is that they will go for a lot of superficial fiddling in favour of landlords that will leave the system more or less the same.
 
NoRegretsCoyote said:
Radical
Tax all rental income at a flat rate of something like 25%. completely separately from other income. No deductions for anything except perhaps major renovations with the relief spread over several years.
Click to expand...
That would mean an effective tax increase on many recipients of rental income and would actively discourage investment in properties requiring ongoing high maintenance or costly upkeep. Belongs firmly in the Fiddling or Actually Counter Productive lists.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top