Minister Murphy actively pushing landlords out of the market in the face of the latest Daft report

The Horseman

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This news has shocked me, I’m literally thinking that maybe I need to evict all my tenants and sell up.

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/eviction-banned-for-longterm-renters-38123625.html

Get out while the going is good.

And I see that article mentions bedsits, and how that policy was a bad idea, something I railed against many times on here.

https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/why-there-is-so-little-house-building-in-ireland.187743/page-3#post-1390780
I am getting out of the rental market on foot of this.
 

Sconeandjam

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I was reading the discussion in the committee stage for the residential tenancies act amendment and mr Murphy is really pushing small time landlords out. Anyone with a btl mortgage have a risk of having to all with sitting tenants.
Mr Murphy wants any substantial change to move up a good number of percentage points on the ber scale which is subjective. Is it worth it I ask? Spending 10-20k for a devalued house with a sitting tenant after 2months...oh they were talking about moving from 6months to 2 months that a tenant can stay as long as they like.

Have 3 btl two empty and up for sale and waiting for the last tenant to leave.

Mr Murphy said in the discussion as well that the reit investors and charity's do not have to adhere to the 4% rent increase as in the case of the small time landlords. No wonder the rents in Dublin are above the 4%.
Many that are homeless are on Hap and with the risks involved landlords will not take on someone that has been emergency accommodation. Why are they there? I had a lady contact me asking to rent a3bed with her 5children (one child only born)and they have been living in emergency accommodation the last 2 years. Ask the child's daddy to help.

The houses we bought were the going rate at the time and will not be devalued by a sitting tenant. The amount of tax we have paid as well as USC is madness. We were caught with rents below the market rent by 400euros due to providing accommodation. The tenants were or ended on rent allowance. We were one of the landlords that helped the government but no more.
 

Folsom

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Folsom

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I am getting out of the rental market on foot of this.
You are a landlord, you are in the business of providing accommodation to tenants.
Why would the prospect of a long-term for life tenancy make you get out of rental market?
 

Saavy99

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You are a landlord, you are in the business of providing accommodation to tenants.
Why would the prospect of a long-term for life tenancy make you get out of rental market?

What if his circumstances change, what if he wants to give the property to his child, or sell it to fund his retirement. What if he loses his job and can't fully meet the mortgage repayments on the house. It' looks like the government's intention is to push all small time landlords out and instead allow these large companies take over the rental market in this country.
 

Luternau

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Why on earth would you even consider evicting all your tenants on account of the proposal to make it easier for tenants to rent for life?
Something along the lines of this:

The proposal that you cannot evict a tenant if you wish to sell.
Tenants getting more rights and protections than private landlords have. Landlords have been thrown under the bus by a succession of governments that have totally failed to tackle the severe undersupply of property and believe they can regulate the problem away by rent and tenancy controls.

Meanwhile, institutional landlords with significant holdings are free to do what they want, and can avail of significant tax breaks while doing so.

Why not go after them and cap the rents and post tax pofits they are making? No, say the regulators, it would send the wrong message about Ireland Inc. being a great place to come and invest.

Its a bad policy created by people that don't understand or care about unintended consequences. Where and when has this happened before?
 

Folsom

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What if his circumstances change, what if he wants to give the property to his child,
Well he cant. As long as there are people, families living in the property paying rent they have a right to privacy and a right to be free from the fear of eviction which could turn their lives upside down.
This is not the 18th century, we have progressed as a society.

sell it to fund his retirement.
There is nothing in that article that suggests he cannot sell it. All that is being offered is security of tenure to rent paying tenants.

What if he loses his job and can't fully meet the mortgage repayments on the house.
What if anybody loses their job and cannot fully meet the mortgage repayments?

It' looks like the government's intention is to push all small time landlords out and instead allow these large companies take over the rental market in this country.
I dont think so. Although perhaps they are trying to push out landlords who, perversely, are more concerned about how to evict their tenants rather than actually providing accommodation to tenants.
 

The Horseman

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You are a landlord, you are in the business of providing accommodation to tenants.
Why would the prospect of a long-term for life tenancy make you get out of rental market?
I entered the market to make money pure and simple. I am not allowed raise rent to market figs. I am not allowed evict non paying residents without going through a long drawn out process and I may not even get paid even if I get a rtb judgment against a tenant.

Can I suggest you go and buy a property and let somebody live in it at a rent you deem appropriate and you make up the shortfall on the mortgage.
 

Folsom

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I entered the market to make money pure and simple.
Well I would suggest that everyone enters business to make money pure and simple. But they do it by providing a good or service that people want and/or need. The quality and pricing of the good or service is what drives competition.
If this is not a consideration of your business model as a landlord, best you leave so.


Can I suggest you go and buy a property and let somebody live in it at a rent you deem appropriate and you make up the shortfall on the mortgage.
No way. The Irish property market is dysfunctional, has been since about 2005 when prices really started going beserk.
There are 200,000 empty dwellings in this country, about 8% of stock. Private ownership sector has 40% under-occupancy. The trend will be for downsizing, leaving big monster houses in the country at risk of neglect.
House prices are supported by ECB money printing that gave assets a price pump and keep our government bond yields artificially low.
The government knows we are walking on egg-shells. Homelessness is still rising so policies will always be to re-act against that and any of it causes, including more protection for tenants - rightly so.
You got into property rental to make money pure and simple, but reality is you haven't figured on the wider implications and factors of becoming a landlord - tenancy rights and security of tenure, homelessness, unemployment, taxes, housing policy, history, and lots more beside.
 

The Horseman

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Well I would suggest that everyone enters business to make money pure and simple. But they do it by providing a good or service that people want and/or need. The quality and pricing of the good or service is what drives competition.
If this is not a consideration of your business model as a landlord, best you leave so.




No way. The Irish property market is dysfunctional, has been since about 2005 when prices really started going beserk.
There are 200,000 empty dwellings in this country, about 8% of stock. Private ownership sector has 40% under-occupancy. The trend will be for downsizing, leaving big monster houses in the country at risk of neglect.
House prices are supported by ECB money printing that gave assets a price pump and keep our government bond yields artificially low.
The government knows we are walking on egg-shells. Homelessness is still rising so policies will always be to re-act against that and any of it causes, including more protection for tenants - rightly so.
You got into property rental to make money pure and simple, but reality is you haven't figured on the wider implications and factors of becoming a landlord - tenancy rights and security of tenure, homelessness, unemployment, taxes, housing policy, history, and lots more beside.
Can I suggest you become familiar with contract law. A lease is a contract which like any contract is for a definitive period of time which allows both parties to agree an extension. The proposals do not allow this nor do they allow a landlord limit their liability to loss like every other commercial trans between two parties neither of which is the state.
 

Folsom

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He can actually.

Requiring a property for personal or familly use is one of the six grounds upon which a Part 4 tenancy can be lawfully terminated.

There is no proposal for that to change.
I stand corrected. Nothing for @Saavy99 to be concerned about then in that regard.
 

Sconeandjam

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And your complaining about landlords trying to protect their investment! Many landlords are leaving their properties empty until the time is right to sell due to the system where it takes up to 2years to evict a non paying tenant and trying to claw this back on someone on state assistance is pointless. I know a good few landlords that had tenants in with good references and new rents paid...2years later the house is destroyed and tenants leave with everything bar the kitchen sink.

You are assuming all landlords went straight to btl purchases. Many home owners became landlords by keeping their old home and renting it out while living in another home. They may have bought at the height of the market and would have to sell below or near to the purchase price. Or they bought from the family.

No wonder landlords are not renting the properties out. The risk is getting too great and with further restrictions Mr Murphy and the opposition are trying to write into law is crazy to be a landlord. There was even a mention of giving a tenant the 6months rent if you want to sell. What if they have not paid the rent in the last 6months and the bank is after the landlord for the mortgage?

If someone wants security then they should try to buy and pay all the costs that go with it.
 

Folsom

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Can I suggest you become familiar with contract law. A lease is a contract which like any contract is for a definitive period of time which allows both parties to agree an extension. The proposals do not allow this nor do they allow a landlord limit their liability to loss like every other commercial trans between two parties neither of which is the state.
https://www.threshold.ie/advice/seeking-private-rented-accommodation/do-i-have-to-sign-a-lease/

You have to get past the concept of the business that you are in is just the same as any other business. It is not. Tenants are not your customers, they are your tenants. Housing is not a commodity, it is a social necessity.
 

Palerider

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Is it difficult managing from so far away?
I have a relationship with a local agent so not at all, quite the opposite, I have little input, my biggest job is to check the rental income statements monthly, the agents there take a lot responsibility getting the right tenant, my trust is developed over time.
 

Palerider

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In more progressive markets such as the US there are apartment buildings and condo buildings, in apartment buildings all units are rented, the building as a consequence is investable, can be sold to larger investors, pension funds and so on, renting for life is possible so long as you pay the rent, you don't and you are out, out much easier than here,

The building owner decides who gets in.

We need to build skywards in Cities, Dublin is a good example, any group that puts in planning for an apartment building in Dublin - all tenanted, for life will sail through planning, I am not talking about social housing.

It's the lack of mature joined up thinking that recognises all stakeholders needs that is the issue in our small country, a look at more mature countries that have addressed their housing needs is a window on resolving all of this, not difficult, not rocket science.
 
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