McCreevy to Brussels - good or bad?

T

techman29

Guest
Even he though he has been criticised by many, I think he has been an excellent MOF and will be a big loss to the present government.

I think he has been the "fall guy" for many of the Government's failures in health and transport etc.

What do you think?
 
No so much worried about what he'll do in Europe as whether we're going to get a tax and spend pinko to replace him at home. Hopefully he'll help move EU economics firmly into the New Europe camp.
 
While not a complete fan of McCreevy on the whole I think he was a good MOF. What really stood out for me was that he actually believed in what he was doing whether right or wrong.
However what really annoys me is the manner in which he was shafted. It obvious its all about votes & Bertie wants a YES man to open up the purse strings in the run up to the next election. We'll be giving away money for the next 2 years in order for Bertie to win the next election & to hell with the economy. Steam is definately coming out of my ears now.!
 
I think this can be good for the EU but is bad for Ireland. Again, like others, I can't stand the way he is made out to be at fault for everything. I think the rest of them up in the Dail have a lot to answer for with the way they are squandering our money.
 
The MOF is always going to get a lot of stick because people always look to the money. They do not look at inefficiencies in departments and poor management. It is surely bad for Ireland for him to go.
Though I haven't agreed with all he has done I think he has done a solid job with managing the economy and he has reformed a tax system that quite frankly was piss poor. He has maintained a tight reign on spending these last few years realising what bad value for money we have gotten for investment in health and education etc.
It was also great to have someone in that department who didn't seek popularity but was driven by a higher ideology.
The only thing that gives me some hope is that Brian Cowen is tipped to take over and I don't think he is a man who bends over for back benchers either.
 
..

"I don't think he is a man who bends over for back benchers either."

That image will stay with me all day. Thanks a bunch.
 
I agree with the general sentiment here, he did a good job overall and based his decisions on what he thought was right , not what he thought was popular. There are a few conviction politicians in FF at the moment but Bertie would not be said to be among them.
The only thing in favour of his leaving is if it helps to keep Pat Rabbid's hands out of our pockets by getting this government back in. It really is a case of the least worst option.
 
Sad that it has come to that, isn't it? There is no real credible alternative around. No matter how much of a kicking the government got at the local elections I don't think anyone would trust the other parties not to make a balls of running the country!
 
Re.Sad that it has come to that

That's about the size of it I'm afraid.
 
No other alternative

Because of the diffuse nature of the opposition we would have a choice between and overdose of Green politics, socialist politics or nationalist ( anti English ) politics.
One would be looking at a coalition of Fine Gael and either the Greens, Labour or Sinn Fein.....

In Germany they are reverting to a 40 hr week with 20 days holidays with no extra pay in order to save jobs. Any socialist-driven demands for more benefits now seems dangerous to the creation of jobs.

Green policies would need the backing of the big players in the economic field...the States etc... They are not willing to do this. ( Kyoto etc....)

This leaves Sinn Fein. There have been warnings that increasing support for them could reduce U.S investment in Ireland. This may seem like unwarranted intrusion into the internal politics of another country by the U.S but must be taken into account when deciding a vote.

I don't think Fine Gael would be strong enough to moderate the influence of a junior partner enough to be trusted in power. So it comes down the Big Fianna Fail and Small Fianna Fail as the best of a bad lot
 
Rose Tinted Glasses

My oh my, aren't we all looking back through rose-tinted (or possibly FF green tinted) glasses when remembering McCreevy's career. Perhaps there were two Chazza McCreevy's out there. The one I remember wasn't a hero who created the Celtic Tiger. Chazza had little real input into economic policy, since Ruari Quinn negotiated Ireland's entry into the Stability & Growth Pact which set out the broad economic parameters. Chazza hasn't even been able to control interest rates since we entered the EMU - we have the guys in the Bundesbank to thank for that. And let's not give FF too much credit for our recent economic growth - it was Richard Bruton/Ruari Quinn/Pat Rabitte who brought in the 12.5% corporation tax rate that spurred on so much economic development in the latter half of the 90's & beyond. Chazza inherited a booming economy - he didn't create it.

The real 'achievements' of the Chazza (who is undoubtedly a clever & talented man) that I knew were;

- the [broken link removed]that ended disability and dental benefit for the unemployed as well as cutting assistance for electricity and gas bills in his first ministry at Social Welfare.
- [broken link removed] of tax evasion at NIB as 'going off half-cocked and making ridiculous and outlandish allegations'. This week's report tells us how far of the mark he was. So is he really that dumb, or did he have some reasons for trying to cover up tax evasion?
- granting money to Agri Ministry Joe Walsh (who had bypassed normal project evaluation procedures) [broken link removed] which co-incidentally was in his own constituency
- Lying to Michael Noonan in the run up to the 2002 elections in telling him that 'no cutbacks are planned' when papers produced later from Finance & other depts clearly show that they were well aware that they had blown the budgets in order to buy the election result and many many cutbacks would be necessary.

Do I need to continue? The man who took the high moral ground in the Haughey ere has demonstrated the morality of a slug in his later decisions. Clearly his major problem with Haughey what simply that Haughey was in power and McCreevy wasn't.

And those who fear a huge 'tax & spend' policy from an alternative goverment might like to compare the track record of the Rainbow coalition with the track record of McCreevy & co from 2000-2002. Let's see who are the real high spenders.

Can we bring a dose of reality to this debate? Have a detailed look at the current economic policies of Labour and keep in mind that Labour will almost certainly be a minor partner in the next Govt. There will be no huge 'tax & spend' campaign (I'm not saying that I like this - but that is the most likely outcome). We may well see increased CGT rates (along with increased annual allowances and cancellation of some of the many generous tax breaks Chazza dished out to his buddies in the horsey & building trades.

To paraphrase a current self-help book, 'feel the fear & vote for someone except FF anyway' - you actually might look back with pride in a few years time.

To paraphrase Phoenix, the only real problem with sending Chazza to Europe is the language problem, but hopefully it's not too late for him to develop a good grasp of English soon.
 
Re.Rose Tinted Glasses

My oh my, aren't we all looking back through rose-tinted (or possibly FF green tinted) glasses when remembering McCreevy's career
My oh my, aren't you looking through red tinted glasses. Most people would share the credit for the Celtic tiger between successive governments since the late 80's when Fianna Fail implemented most of the economic policies that Fine Gael tried to bring in (stopped by tricky Dickey if I remember correctly, though I was only a nipper at the time), but you would give absolutely no credit to Charley McCreevey. That sounds like sower grapes and typifies what I don't like about the Labour party; you insist on portraying a black and white view of politics in this country. I have read and agreed with many of your posts on AAM and you are doing yourself a disservice by not using the discerning intellect which you clearly have to give a balanced view of the man.
If you don't like the "best of a bad lot" fatalism shown above why not put forward the case as to why a Labour and whoever government would be better economically for this country, not why Charlie Mc is a scumbag and so even a former communist would be better.
I think that McCreevy, despite some stupid mistakes, some nods to the mates and some breath taking arrogance, has done a very good job. He does what he thinks is right on macro issues, not what he thinks is popular; the opposite of Bertie.
Bertie was perhaps the worst (and most left wing) finance minister we have had in 20 years and he still did quite well! Ruari Quinn could hardly be considered a real socialist or at least if he is he is the ultimate smoked salmon one, his family are stinking rich; his brother owns 4 or 5 Ferrari's!
it was Richard Bruton/Ruari Quinn/Pat Rabitte who brought in the 12.5% corporation tax rate that spurred on so much economic development in the latter half of the 90's & beyond. Chazza inherited a booming economy - he didn't create it.
It was Quinn and Bruton, not Rabbitte and it was a continuation of earlier policies by other governments.
He did continue to grow the economy, indeed he grew it at an increased rate!
The man who took the high moral ground in the Haughey ere has demonstrated the morality of a slug in his later decisions. Clearly his major problem with Haughey what simply that Haughey was in power and McCreevy wasn't.
That's a very small minded thing to say, does no one who you don't like have any ethics or morals? Why can't you just not like their views but give them credit for the good things they do or has the country functioned in a moral vacuum for the last six years?
To paraphrase a current self-help book, 'feel the fear & vote for someone except FF anyway' - you actually might look back with pride in a few years time.
The problem is that many people did just that for Dick Spring (the spring tide) and the perception is that he let people down. I think he did what he had to do in the real world but he just set the bar to high for himself.
IMHO many on the left forget that government in a democracy is the art of compromise and that includes your principals. The only question is how much you are willing to give to get things done.
To paraphrase Phoenix, the only real problem with sending Chazza to Europe is the language problem, but hopefully it's not too late for him to develop a good grasp of English soon.
Again, that comment is beneath you. It's the sort of thing trotted out by people without the intellect to do better, you can do much better.
 
Re: Re.Rose Tinted Glasses

Ah come on, purp.

Don't hammer me for lack of balance when you read through the McCreevy love-fest above.

Don't hammer me for taking cheap shots when you feel the need to mention Ruari's brothers wealth/Ferraris as somehow relevant.

Don't hammer me for focussing on McCreevy instead of the alternatives when the title of the thread is 'McCreevy to Brussells - good or bad'.

But if anyone does want to consider the alternatives, have a read of [broken link removed].
 
Re: Re.Rose Tinted Glasses

Don't hammer me for lack of balance when you read through the McCreevy love-fest above.
so are you saying that's the full extent of what he had done for the last six years, not one good bit?
Don't hammer me for taking cheap shots when you feel the need to mention Ruari's brothers wealth/Ferrari's as somehow relevant.
Fair point, so ignoring my cheap shot about the former Mr. AIB, stop taking cheap shots!
Don't hammer me for focusing on McCreevy instead of the alternatives when the title of the thread is 'McCreevy to Brussels - good or bad'.
But you are not arguing the merits or otherwise of his move to Brussels! You are having a go at a man with no attempt at balance.
But if anyone does want to consider the alternatives, have a read of this.
This post will be deleted if not edited immediately, that sounds great! But so do all the parties promotional literature. The problem is none of them can deliver because they can really do very little to change society. Social engineering takes a long time. FG trotted out the same message in the 80's and made an even bigger balls of things that the FF government they replaced.
 
Re: Re.Rose Tinted Glasses

Hi Purple - Yeah, so I'll admit to having laid it on a bit thick, but I genuinly am struggling to find something nice to say about Chazza. He positioned himself as a 'new breed' in FF, and alternative to the old era of gombeen stroke politics, and then we he got into power, he proved his enthusiasm for local stokes just like his former colleagues.

I've no doubt that he is a smart guy - That's really about the only good thing I can honestly think of.
 
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