Mary-Lou "United Ireland is within touching distance"

The biggest growth opportunities for NI businesses are to IE and rest of EU. And where capital flows, politicial, economic and demographic trends tend to follow.
That assumes a level of logical reasoning which hasn’t been evident in my lifetime.
 
There are no guarantees for sure, and there are many hurdles to a formal UI through plebiscite and sovereignty.

A more informal UI - agreed practices of customs and trade, diminishing sectarianism, mutual cultural acknowledgements and recognition. I'd take that any day, and think that is more 'touching distance' than what MLMcD may have in mind.
 
A more informal UI - agreed practices of customs and trade, diminishing sectarianism, mutual cultural acknowledgements and recognition. I'd take that any day, and think that is more 'touching distance' than what MLMcD may have in mind.
There are people up there, on both sides, who, given the choice, would object to formal education and the refrigeration of food.

It’s another world, where rational thought goes on holidays for a break.
 
Mary-Lou is back on the Border Poll trail again, on Good Morning Britain.
If the poll was defeated, then what ? "Be careful what you wish for"
 
Mary-Lou is back on the Border Poll trail again, on Good Morning Britain.
If the poll was defeated, then what ? "Be careful what you wish for"

It's the follow-on impact. The precedent will have be set as per GFA, that the people of NI shall decide NI's future, not God.

Unfortunately, the DUP who never signed up to GFA believe the Union with Britain is derived through His Majesty and as long as the monarch reigns, then so shall NI, regardless of what the people think.
 
It's the follow-on impact.
That's a very generous interpretation of her comment. In fairness to her she's in a difficult position as she's probably not getting clear instructions from the Party leadership in Belfast.

The precedent will have be set as per GFA, that the people of NI shall decide NI's future, not God.
That's always been the position of the UK government. It was the IRA that rejected the primacy of democratic will of the people of Northern Ireland.

Unfortunately, the DUP who never signed up to GFA believe the Union with Britain is derived through His Majesty and as long as the monarch reigns, then so shall NI, regardless of what the people think.
The DUP are dying. They have a similar age profile to the Orange Order and the Priesthood.
 
The DUP are dying. They have a similar age profile to the Orange Order and the Priesthood.

I wonder if the same could be said about FF, FG and the Labour Party?

Seems to me that if SF could shake off some of its historical baggage and add some intelligence to its Front Bench spokespersons both North and South of the Border it could sweep the country. (Although I think that it might also need to replace the consistently unimpressive Mary Lou too.)
 
I can't argue about Mary Lou being like an anchor around the SF neck, but I don't see any brave, new shining lights, coming through the ranks. Any suggestions?
 
I wonder if the same could be said about FF, FG and the Labour Party?
It's amazing that despite the best efforts of RTE the two centre left parties in power still enjoy the support of around 40% of the population.

Seems to me that if SF could shake off some of its historical baggage and add some intelligence to its Front Bench spokespersons both North and South of the Border it could sweep the country. (Although I think that it might also need to replace the consistently unimpressive Mary Lou too.)
I think they'd need to actually become a democratic party, get rid of the Army Council who actually run the party from west Belfast, stop glorifying child killers, decide if they want to keep pandering to their racist base, decide if they want to be a party with economic policies for working people or for rich old people (which is what they are now) and start to he more than a party of opposition and policy wise start to deal with the realities of what is required to run a small country with a very open economy.

When they do that then they'll just be a populist pseudo-left wing party with pro-cyclical economic policies which is unable to overcome the inertia of the State sector. In other words they'll just be another FF or FG but without the people with the experience or ability.
 
's amazing that despite the best efforts of RTE the two centre left parties in power still enjoy the support of around 40% of the population.
all I know is most of the supporters who come to my door looking for votes for FF FG Labour when I get talking to them
I soon find out there support base is left not center left,
The reason they are down to 40% is because they had to stop hand feeding a large section of their old supporters base, ,

I can safely say I cannot remember any other party supporters promising to create a bigger Government than FF and FG to gain votes,
 
Last edited:
I can't argue about Mary Lou being like an anchor around the SF neck, but I don't see any brave, new shining lights, coming through the ranks. Any suggestions?

Personally, I'm quite happy for her to remain in place - ad infinitum, in fact! But, in fairness, they do appear to have a couple of decent performers who would have joined the party after the GFA so aren't tainted by the SF/IRA legacy.
 
It's amazing that despite the best efforts of RTE the two centre left parties in power still enjoy the support of around 40% of the population.

Happily, the vast majority of Gen Z and the Millennials don't pay much heed to sermons from the Irish Times or RTE!

Unhappily, they're far more likely to be following Holly Cairns or Conor McGregor on social media!
 
That's always been the position of the UK government. It was the IRA that rejected the primacy of democratic will of the people of Northern Ireland.

That's not quite true though, is it?

Thatcher made a point of NI as being as much part of the UK as her own constituency in Finchley (?). In effect, it was no more the right of people of NI to determine its future in UK as it was for people of Finchley

The DUP, who have never signed up to GFA, still reject the primacy of the democratic will of the people of Northern Ireland insofar as the constitutional issue is concerned.

And pre-1998, and changes to Article2 & 3 it was the inscribed right of the Irish State under the constitution to exercise jurisdiction over the whole territory of the island of Ireland, its islands and territorial seas.

People of NI have never had primacy, until 1998. And even now that is still disputed insofar as the DUP are concerned.
 
Last edited:
That's not quite true though, is it?
It is though. It's always been the position of the UK government that the status of Northern Ireland would be determined by the people of Northern Ireland.
Thatcher made a point of NI as being as much part of the UK as her own constituency in Finchley (?). In effect, it was no more the right of people of NI to determine its future in UK as it was for people of Finchley
That's not the point she was making. I thought that was self evident.
The DUP, who have never signed up to GFA, still reject the primacy of the democratic will of the people of Northern Ireland insofar as the constitutional issue is concerned.
No, they reject any input in the government or governance of Northern Ireland by the Government of Ireland. I don't think that they would accept the will of the majority of Northern Ireland either if it doesn't suit their ends but that hasn't happened yet. The DUP are no better than Sinn Fein or their bosses in West Belfast when it comes to respecting democracy.
And pre-1998, and changes to Article2 & 3 it was the inscribed right of the Irish State under the constitution to exercise jurisdiction over the whole territory of the island of Ireland, its islands and territorial seas.
It did but when we joined the UN in 1955 we accepted the border and that Northern Ireland was part of the UK.
We did the same thing in 1973 when we joined the EEC.
Articles 2 & 3 were never more than aspirational.

People of NI have never had primacy, until 1998. And even now that is still disputed insofar as the DUP are concerned.
See above; the UK Government always accepted that the people of Northern Ireland get to decide their own destiny.
The IRA and their political wing never accepted that. The DUP do as long as their view is held by the majority but they're no better than the Shinners; democracy is just a tool to be used to further their goals.
 
Last edited:
I don't think that they would accept the will of the majority of Northern Ireland either if it doesn't suit their ends but that hasn't happened yet.

That is the point. It wasnt just SF/IRA that didnt accept the will of the majority of NI, the DUP never have and still don't. They refuse to sign up to GFA. And if ever any of their seniors officials are asked if "would you accept the majority if in favour of a united ireland?", they simply side-step the issue by saying it will never happen.

There is a perverse logic in SF demanding a referendum and Unionism steadfast against one when, if held tomorrow, the result would be highly favourable of remaining in UK.

Why would SF want a poll that those in favour of a UI would most certainly lose? And why would Unionists resist a poll that they would most certainly win in favour or remaining in UK?

Unlike the poll in the early '70s, a poll as per GFA would be legally binding. And even if UI'ers were to lose, it sets a precedent on how the future of NI is to be decided. All nationalists have to do is win once, Unionists have to win all the time, as once a divided Ireland is gone it is gone forever.

For DUP, best not to have a poll in the first place, thus avoiding the precedent...but should there ever be one, not to recognise the result.


It did but when we joined the UN in 1955 we accepted the border and that Northern Ireland was part of the UK.
We did the same thing in 1973 when we joined the EEC.
Articles 2 & 3 were never more than aspirational.

It was accepted that NI was part of the UK but it was not accepted by the Irish State that people of NI would determine their own constitutional future. That future lay in the entire people of the nation of Ireland as per Articles 2&3. Its why Unionists made it a stumbling block for talking to the Irish government for many, many years.
 
Back
Top