Mandatory BER B2 for refurb where > 25% surface area being renovated

[David_Dublin]

Anyone familiar with this? https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/8...standards-for-major-renovations-to-buildings/

Seems like quite an overhead with doing a big refurb job.

Has anyone got any sort of checklist for what might get you to BER B2? As in, I'm not convinced my age of home would ever suit a heat pump, so wondering can you get to BER B2 with windows, wall/attic/floor insulation, new boiler, PV. I guess it depends on lots of things.

I'm not too sure how BER would work in relation to the requirements of this legislation - would you engage with a BER assesor before doing work, and work with them to understand what you would need to do in the scope of works to ensure you end up with a BER B2 rating?

 

[jpd]

There is no BER 2 rating - presumably you mean BER B2

I don't think there is a need to get a BER assessment before the work is done but as indicated in the link

If you are planning on getting a major renovation done to your home it is a good idea to know about these requirements and to discuss them with an architect or planning professional before the project begins.

If it is a major renovation, the cost of a BER prior to work commencing should not be a block - after all, they will only cost a few hundred euro versus the tens of thousands, if not hundreds, of thousand for a major renovation

 

[David_Dublin]

There is no BER 2 rating - presumably you mean BER B2

I don't think there is a need to get a BER assessment before the work is done but as indicated in the link


If it is a major renovation, the cost of a BER prior to work commencing should not be a block - after all, they will only cost a few hundred euro versus the tens of thousands, if not hundreds, of thousand for a major renovation

Thanks - have added B2, was a recurring typo.

I'm not worried about the cost of a BER prior to commencement, what I'm trying to establish is if you can get BER assessor to review the plan before you kick off to ensure you hit the B2 mark. Would be a "shame" to do 300k or more of work and have to re-do stuff if you came in under B2!

 

[David_Dublin]

I'm also interested in the "economically possible" qualification, can't seem to find an interpretations of this. Bit of a difficult one to pin down I imagine. Presumably anything is economically possible if you have the budget.

 

[Leo]

Has anyone got any sort of checklist for what might get you to BER B2?

This guide covers what it would take for the most common house types here. With the new deep retrofit scheme covering 50% of costs, achieving B2 or better is becoming a lot more affordable.

 

[jpd]

Your architect should be able to give assurances about the likely BER rating after the work is done. If he/she can't, get another one

 

[Alkers86]

Anyone familiar with this? https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/8...standards-for-major-renovations-to-buildings/

Seems like quite an overhead with doing a big refurb job.

Has anyone got any sort of checklist for what might get you to BER B2? As in, I'm not convinced my age of home would ever suit a heat pump, so wondering can you get to BER B2 with windows, wall/attic/floor insulation, new boiler, PV. I guess it depends on lots of things.

I'm not too sure how BER would work in relation to the requirements of this legislation - would you engage with a BER assesor before doing work, and work with them to understand what you would need to do in the scope of works to ensure you end up with a BER B2 rating?

Yes it is possible to get to a B2 with the measures you discuss.

When the solar PV grants were tied to BER ratings, it was possible to get a pre-installation BER, in which the assessor would consider the proposed measures and then calculate what the BER will be after the fact. Any BER assessor should be able to do this.

If you're not availing of any grants and engaging your own contractors etc, you're very unlikely to have any sort of checkign or enforcement carried out on your post works BER rating...

 

[David_Dublin]

Thanks @Alkers86 - my intention would be to avail of Grants, but using my own contractors. I will be somewhat limited in the contractors I can use as they will need to be SEAI certified from what I understand. I'd be happy for SEAI to verify/validate works. I'm happy to go through these extra hoops, and potentially slightly higher (gross) cost, to get the grants and end up with the B2.

 

[Leo]

Note if you go down the route of self-managed as opposed to the 'One Stop Shop' option, there are fewer grants available. From your list, you would not get grants for the floor insulation or windows.

 

[David_Dublin]

Thanks @Leo - I hadn't picked that up. If the Contractor is an SEAI (as they'd need to be to get the grants in the first place) presume you can do a One Stop Shop alongside a wider scope of works that would include extension and other bits & pieces?

 

[fidelcastro]

Note if you go down the route of self-managed as opposed to the 'One Stop Shop' option, there are fewer grants available. From your list, you would not get grants for the floor insulation or windows.

Hi Leo, I read that. Sounds overly burecratic considering the amount of houses pre 2011 which need urgent upgrade works and the scarcity of "reliable" trades to carry out said works.

 

[jpd]

They can hardly give the subsidy money out to every jerry and his builder friend just on a whim

 

[Leo]

Thanks @Leo - I hadn't picked that up. If the Contractor is an SEAI (as they'd need to be to get the grants in the first place) presume you can do a One Stop Shop alongside a wider scope of works that would include extension and other bits & pieces?

Grants would cover improvements to the existing structure only, as the regs will dictate minimum standards for any new-build works, but I'd speak to a few contractors before you commence to ensure that the extension works won't disqualify you.

 

[Savvy]

Thanks @Leo - I hadn't picked that up. If the Contractor is an SEAI (as they'd need to be to get the grants in the first place) presume you can do a One Stop Shop alongside a wider scope of works that would include extension and other bits & pieces?

I was watching some SEAI youtube presentations with a Q&A on the Feb 14/15th announcement and they said that in some cases the One Stop Shop have links with building contractors and tie the whole lot together. Certainly something we are considering doing.

Slightly off topic but on the same video they stated that the government/SEAI are hoping to be announcing financing measures mid year. Currently Energia have a tie in with some of the credit unions for low cost loans. I would hope that it would be something similar with other lenders.

 

[Leo]

Hi Leo, I read that. Sounds overly burecratic considering the amount of houses pre 2011 which need urgent upgrade works and the scarcity of "reliable" trades to carry out said works.

The One Stop Shop approach is the opposite of overly burecratic! They organise it all for you and cover the project management costs. This is the best way to ensure that the grant money is spent wisely on suitable projects that will be completed to the required standards.

 

[Leo]

I was watching some SEAI youtube presentations with a Q&A on the Feb 14/15th announcement and they said that in some cases the One Stop Shop have links with building contractors and tie the whole lot together.

Yeah, they are seeking providers to offer the OSS service, so in many cases these will be directly tied to a single company.

 

[fidelcastro]

The One Stop Shop approach is the opposite of overly burecratic! They organise it all for you and cover the project management costs. This is the best way to ensure that the grant money is spent wisely on suitable projects that will be completed to the required standards.

I suppose that is true, but I dont need project managers to oversea the simple task of replacing windows & doors, if I want to self-manage I am penalised!,

 

[Leo]

I suppose that is true, but I dont need project managers to oversea the simple task of replacing windows & doors, if I want to self-manage I am penalised!,

You don't have to use a PM if you so choose. Of course the SEAI aren't going to pay you to PM your own work. It's probably all moot anyway as if all you're doing is replacing windows and doors then you're unlikely to qualify for the OSS scheme which is aimed at deeper retrofits achieving a minimum reduction of 100kWh/m2/year.

 

[fayf]

If you do revisit the Heap Pump route, There is up to 2k in grants, available for project management services, for this type of work, if B2 or higher achieved.(scroll down to project management)

One Stop Shop Service

A complete home energy upgrade solution for homeowners. Find out more.

www.seai.ie

OSS is definitely the most straightforward, higher grants, and a bigger range of grants available, and the provider claims all the grants for you.

But, better got moving, as some who will likely be appointed as OSS certified, aka - already have a track record of dealing with SEAI, have already closed, their 2022 order books.

I can’t find the article, but i read somewhere that the additional “launch” bonus of 2k(for heat pump), may not be available in 2023.

 

[David_Dublin]

If you do revisit the Heap Pump route, There is up to 2k in grants, available for project management services, for this type of work, if B2 or higher achieved.(scroll down to project management)

One Stop Shop Service

A complete home energy upgrade solution for homeowners. Find out more.

www.seai.ie

OSS is definitely the most straightforward, higher grants, and a bigger range of grants available, and the provider claims all the grants for you.

But, better got moving, as some who will likely be appointed as OSS certified, aka - already have a track record of dealing with SEAI, have already closed, their 2022 order books.

I can’t find the article, but i read somewhere that the additional “launch” bonus of 2k(for heat pump), may not be available in 2023.

How can u get moving when they haven't listed the approved Contractors (as far as I know anyway)?

I'm unsure how OSS works if doing a wider piece of work that might include extending, presume you'd need to use the same contractor for the BER focused work and the extension?