Man caught doing 208km/h on motorway jailed for three months

Seagull said:
My view would be
1. You need to legislate to the worst/average car on the road, not for the high performance cars. You also need to legislate based on the average driver. You need to assume 60 year olds in micras, rather than Lewis Hamilton in a Ferrari.
3. Because of the standard of Irish driving, especially on motorways

And I'm afraid I'm skipping 2. I don't know what research the speed limit is based on. I'm presuming there's more behind it than someone sucking it out their thumb.
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I am of the view that the "worst" cars on the road need to be removed, permanently. There is no place for 60 year old micras on the roads, imho.

In part, this can be done by scrappage deals from time to time, but in part this needs suitable and constant enforcement. The days of being able to buy a "banger" need to go immediately - this means stopping their sale at the source (i.e. put a stop to the likes of the travelers selling them on the edge of the Malahide Road, near Darndale for example) and having the existing ones removed from their owners (if they won't trade them in against safer cars, then simply force them to be scrapped).

I agree entirely about the point on the average driver and hte standards of Irish driving.

I see this as requiring a couple of things, we need to:
- force all drivers to pay closer attention to the rules of the road, maintanance of their vehicles etc. In simple terms, we need to force drivers to keep high standards
- raise the standard for new drivers (this means more tuition, more testing and I would also propose, an advanced driving licence for those wishing to use motorways)


PGF2016 said:
Is motor way driving a problem in Ireland from a safety perspective? I would have thought the majority of fatalities happen on secondary roads.
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So would I, although I have not seen any statistics.

Day or night also play their part (with sadly, a lot of drivers being killed on the roads late at night)


twofor1 said:
1. Our laws should be appropriate to what is safe, nothing else.
No matter how many safety features you have in a car, it still has to be driven, and drivers make mistakes.
It is also worth pointing out that not everyone has that high spec modern car. You cannot have one law for the 06 Micra and another for the 161 BMW.

2. After many years of driving, and bearing in mind our roads, cars and drivers, I think 120 Kph is the appropriate maximum speed on our motorways. I would not feel safe travelling any faster in a car, anyone that wants to travel faster than that should maybe fly. That’s my opinion, I accept others might differ.

3. It’s not all about the car, in my experience, the standard of driving on our motorways is appalling.
Many appear to be totally unfamiliar with the rules of the road regarding motorways; joining / exiting, lane discipline, overtaking and in particular braking distances for motorway speeds.
Other countries appear to have a far higher standard of motorway driving so are possibly safer at higher speeds.
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You are obviously correct about drivers making mistakes, but thats always going to be a risk. It is not influened by the speed a driver travels at and sadly, a person can be killed in a car due to a mistake, while traveling at quite alow speed (perhaps 50kms for example).

We also agree about the type of car people drive. My comments above about removing the "bangers" is relevant here, although only one consideration. I also think certain small engine cars should not be permitted on motorways (and this must be enforced) - by extension, I believe you can have different laws, for different cars.

While I respect your opinion on how safe you would be happy to drive, you say it yourself, others will differ. But how we do we decide on whats safe and whats appropriate, do we rely on one person's opinion, or do we follow the German autobahn system etc ? Also, how do we ensure that what was once appropriate remains appropriate (periodic reviews must play a part) ?

We also agree about the standard of driving (on motorways, but also elsewhere). I refer you to my comments above, in respect to the previous poster. More and more I am growing convinced that motorway driving must have different laws, requiring advanced driving tests and licences along with only certain categories of vehicles. Advanced tests and licences, requiring a driver to have X years driving experience may help improve standards, but enforcement is equally essential (drivers on mobile phones, cars without safe typres etc.)


pauric said:
The fact that you can obtain a full license without ever have driven on a motorway needs a serious looking at.

I guess it would be difficult for regional counties which don't have motorways to be able to test this but it needs reviewing.

I drive a BMW and often flash the idiot infront of me driving in the overtaking lane while not overtaking. Even if he is doing 208kmph he has no right to be there. Most of these clowns however are driving below the speed limit. I end up having to undertake them and then I continue to drive in the left lane.

It has nothing to do with what car I drive, I would flash him/her if I was driving a Micra also
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I agree with you on the point about licences and refer to my suggestion above - two types of tests and licences, the advanced only permitting use of motorways. We have enough motorways nationwide, to facilitate regional testing centres for an advanced motorway licence system.

Like you, I flash "idiots" in front of me and consider them a danger to us all. By holding up the outside lane, the are increasing the risk of accident or occasional road rage, be their actions through individual stupidity or deliberate intention. You have said it yourself (and I appreciate the honesty, as we all know it happens every hour, not alone every day), it puts you in a situation where you use a lane to the left for overtaking and thats taking a risk.
 
MrEarl said:
Like you, I flash "idiots" in front of me and consider them a danger to us all. By holding up the outside lane, the are increasing the risk of accident or occasional road rage, be their actions through individual stupidity or deliberate intention. You have said it yourself (and I appreciate the honesty, as we all know it happens every hour, not alone every day), it puts you in a situation where you use a lane to the left for overtaking and thats taking a risk.
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It is illegal to undertake. I agree that the person in the wrong lane is the root cause of the problem but you don't compound their stupidity by doing something illegal yourself.
If you are driving in the correct lane and there is a slower driver in an outside lane then it's ok to just stay where you are and go past them but if you change lanes, i.e. maneuver left, to pass them then you are joining them in the "dangerous idiot" club.
 
Purple said:
If you are driving in the correct lane and there is a slower driver in an outside lane then it's ok to just stay where you are and go past them ...........
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That’s news to me.

I agree with most of your post, but have to disagree with this.

The rules of the road re motorway overtaking are clear – ‘’Overtake only on the right’’, the only exception being when traffic is moving in slow moving queues.

Page 145 here;

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Learner Drivers/Rules_of_the_road.pdf

If some ‘’idiot’’, on a 120 Kph motorway decides to drive at 100 Kph in the outside lane, he/she is wrong to do so, but to overtake on the left, even if already in the left lane is also wrong, dangerous and illegal.
 
twofor1 said:
I won’t argue with you, but my guess is a garda or judge would consider it as overtaking, even if in the left lane.
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I don't know the answer, but I would have thought that overtaking implies some form of manoeuvre. If I'm driving on an empty l motorway in the left lane at (say) 120kph and I come across a car in the overtaking lane which is travelling at 60kph, what should I do? And does simply continuing on constitute "overtaking"?
 
I understand that passing someone on the left hand side is "undertaking" although the "rules of the road" say that you should only overtake on the right unless the traffic on your right is a slow moving queue when you can overtake on the left.

There are parts of the M50 where there are 4 lanes with the left most lane being an exit lane, I understand that this exit lane is a lane to itself.
 
Ceist Beag said:
I have a feeling we're revisiting a previous thread on overtaking vs passing on the left here! :D
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That's what I was thinking.
My general answer is to imagine a driver on the outside (far right) lane doing 30kmph on the motorway. Should all the traffic in the other lanes slow down to ensure they don't pass him? (answer: of course they shouldn't!).
 
Gordon Gekko said:
I don't know the answer, but I would have thought that overtaking implies some form of manoeuvre.
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Yes, of course it does. If you read the rules of the road it mentions maneuvering when laying out how to overtake another vehicle. And yes, I've clarified this with two Gardai and a district court judge.
 
twofor1 said:
The rules of the road...
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Don't rely on the Rules of The Road as published by the RSA as the definitive guide to the Road Traffic Acts. In particular, look for where they use the word 'should' versus 'must'. Where they use 'must', what follows is generally prescribed by law, where they use 'should', their advice is usually based on interpretation and what they consider reasonable.
 
Hello,

In appreciation of the point regarding it being wrong to overtake in the left lane (exception noted from the posts above), then do we agree that people driving continuously in the overtaking lane (particularly those doing below the speed limit) are then essentially driving dangerously - given then may cause an accident, by preventing others from using the motorway correctly ?
 
MrEarl said:
Hello,

In appreciation of the point regarding it being wrong to overtake in the left lane (exception noted from the posts above), then do we agree that people driving continuously in the overtaking lane (particularly those doing below the speed limit) are then essentially driving dangerously - given then may cause an accident, by preventing others from using the motorway correctly ?
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Absolutely. Any time you force another car to make an unnecessary maneuver you are driving dangerously.
I can't say I have never driven behind someone and flashed them to pull over when they are in the overtaking lane.
There are still some stupid people who refer to a "fast lane" rather than an overtaking lane.
 
PGF2016 said:
Is motor way driving a problem in Ireland from a safety perspective? I would have thought the majority of fatalities happen on secondary roads.
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You would have thought that based on what, your own guess? Driving at 208kmh is a safety issue, wasn't that obvious? Isn't that clear? It probably was to most people.
 
vincentgav said:
You would have thought that based on what, your own guess? Driving at 208kmh is a safety issue, wasn't that obvious? Isn't that clear? It probably was to most people.
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I've based my observation on the fact that it's very rare that deaths on motorways are reported in the news and that most reports are of deaths on secondary roads. That's anecdotal evidence.

Of course driving at 208kmh is a safety issue. Did I say otherwise?

Interesting that you picked my post out of an old thread.
 
Of course motorways are far safer than ordinary single-carriageway roads. That's why we've built them in the first instance and a good part of the reason why our road casualty stats have dropped sharply in the past decade.

It's also worth noting again that the majority of German motorways have no speed limit whatsoever and their road casualty rates are lower than ours. So it's quite possible that driving at 208kmh in a given set of circumstances may well not be a safety issue at all.
 
T McGibney said:
It's also worth noting again that the majority of German motorways have no speed limit whatsoever and their road casualty rates are lower than ours. So it's quite possible that driving at 208kmh in a given set of circumstances may well not be a safety issue at all.
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I have never been on the Autobahn, how many lanes does it have in each direction ? I’m guessing it is more than the 2 lanes that we have for the vast majority of our motorway network.

If that is the case, is it fair to make comparisons ?
 
twofor1 said:
I have never been on the Autobahn, how many lanes does it have in each direction ? I’m guessing it is more than the 2 lanes that we have for the vast majority of our motorway network.

If that is the case, is it fair to make comparisons ?
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You're asking based on a guess? :rolleyes:
 
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