Major fall in BTC price (16th Jan)

If they don't have the actual Bitcoin then their customers would not be able to move their coins.

Additionally their customers would not be able to buy other alt coins on their exchange with their BTC. It would be found out.
 
It appears that the fall today is due to Google banning ads for cryptocurrencies and ICOs.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...CN1GQ0GD?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Social

Under the new policy, Google said it would ban ads for cryptocurrencies and related content such as initial coin offerings, crypto exchanges and cryptocurrency wallets and advertisements providing trading advice.

But it's also banned ads for spread betting!

Google also said on Wednesday it would stop ads for financial products like binary options and synonymous products, contracts for difference, rolling spot forex and financial spread betting.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
I say: BTC owners bought Tethers.
You say: Tether bought BTC

So the Tether demand pushed up the price of BTC.
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There's a lot more to Cryptos than Bitcoin. For example, I have never sold BTC for Tethers EVER and yet I have held Tethers on dozens of occasions. How many other Cryptopians have done the same? I would say a large %.

I also think that Tether has had practically ZERO influence on the price of BTC. The reason why the price would fall if there was a serious Tether issue would be more to do with confidence in Exchanges as the likes of Bitfinex is one of the biggest (if not THE biggest) and it is closely associated with Tether so it would be very serious for the market in general.

Brendan Burgess said:
Why did they not sell some of the BTC for real cash?
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Because traders like to sit out the market for a short period of time ready to buy back in. To do this via FIAT can be a lengthy process depending on the amounts involved, not to mention the cost of doing it.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
I think we are saying roughly speaking the same thing.

I say: BTC owners bought Tethers.
You say: Tether bought BTC

So the Tether demand pushed up the price of BTC.
Click to expand...

I think you are saying the complete y opposite to each other.
If im buying Tether with BTC (effectively offloading BTC for US$) then the BTC price will fall.

The only sense I can make of it is that the exchange owners introduced a new coin, tether, and that punters bought it with €$£ and then those €$£ were used by the exchange owners to buy bitcoin, ramping up the price of bitcoin but falsely claiming that those €$£ were held on reserve for tether or,
punters bought tether with €$£ for the purposes of avoiding exchange transaction fees trading in bitcoin and other cryptos and that the exchange owners used the €$£ to buy BTC but are now under scrutiny for the tether reserves, that are actually BTC reserves?
Or something like that, if thats not the same thing repeated :confused:
 
Sunny said:
How can anyone say tether has had zero impact on the price of bitcoin???
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This is how Sunny.....

There are roughly 2.2bn Tethers in circulation but that doesn't mean there are all in use so let's say half of them are in use at any given time as I'd imagine most exchanges would keep a float in case of any spikes given how volatile the market is.

So that leaves us with 1.1bn. That would represent a mere 0.75 of 1% of the market cap of Bitcoin or circa 0.35 of 1% at it's peak.

The numbers are miniscule when you put them in perspective.

The real question that we should be asking is how much Tether does each exchange hold relative to it's day to day cash requirements as that could put them under.
 
Negotiator said:
There are roughly 2.2bn Tethers in circulation
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Representing, apparently $2.2bn.

Negotiator said:
That would represent a mere 0.75 of 1% of the market cap of Bitcoin or circa 0.35 of 1% at it's peak.
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Thats the way I would read it.
In all of this, it appears, there are three players, Tether, Bitcoin and US$. If you hold tether its possible you hold nothing? If you hold the other two, you are fine.

On the otherhand, its possible that there are US$ dollars behind Tether, just that they are off-shore, under some Puerto Rican bankers mattress, on some yacht somewhere in the Caribbean sea with a bunch of other yachts owned by bankers that have US$ dollars on board and the bankers are so high from partying that nobody can remember which paradise account the money came from. Hence the difficulty in auditing.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
I am confused. Have you not argued that the dollar is going to be heavily devalued due to corrupt bankers and QE?

Brendan
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Ba-doosh! Nice one Brendan, you have cornered me there. Lets see if I can wriggle out of it? :)

"...if you hold the other two you are fine for the time being. That is, both bitcoin and $US have ready made markets that will accept each other as legitimate forms of payment. I cant be sure about Tether, and given the controversy surrounding it I wouldnt be surprised if its value went to zero.
That said, bitcoin is also highly volatile and considering the corruption inherent in the $US then dont be surprised if either of them bite you in the backside too.
However, purely in the context of the controversy surrounding Tether, they are fine."
 
Negotiator said:
This is how Sunny.....

There are roughly 2.2bn Tethers in circulation but that doesn't mean there are all in use so let's say half of them are in use at any given time as I'd imagine most exchanges would keep a float in case of any spikes given how volatile the market is.

So that leaves us with 1.1bn. That would represent a mere 0.75 of 1% of the market cap of Bitcoin or circa 0.35 of 1% at it's peak.

The numbers are miniscule when you put them in perspective.

The real question that we should be asking is how much Tether does each exchange hold relative to it's day to day cash requirements as that could put them under.
Click to expand...

This is why all this is a complete bubble. There is absolutely no rational analysis by some people here. Some other people seem to be fully aware and happy to take the risk which is fair enough. But others......

The problem isn’t the amount of tether that is held by exchanges or even the amount in circulation. The issue is the strong correlation between the issuance of new tether which looks like it made up out of thin air and the rise in price of bitcoin. When the price of bitcoin fell from the highs, it looks like it was manipulated by some company in the British Virgin Islands creating Monopoly money and who just happen to own their own exchange which is one of the largest if not the largest bitcoin exchanges despite not being exactly open about it.

It would be the equivalent of the Irish stock exchange printing a couple of billion of notes, purchasing BOI shares and everyone talking about how BOI was a great investment.

And before anyone says it, I know central banks can print money but if anyone tries to compare the FED to a company in the British Virgin Islands, I will know this discussion has lost the plot.

Maybe there is no big deal here but I wouldn’t bet on it.
 
Sunny said:
It would be the equivalent of the Irish stock exchange printing a couple of billion of notes, purchasing BOI shares and everyone talking about how BOI was a great investment.
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Very good analogy Sunny.

But they would not have to print a couple of billion. A few million should be enough to cause a spike in the price of BoI but, of course, you would need a few billion, to keep the bubble going.

The question is would owners of BoI shares sell them in exchange for these "notes"? Would the ISE then hold onto the BoI shares or feed them slowly back into the market for real cash?

Brendan
 
Negotiator said:
So that leaves us with 1.1bn. That would represent a mere 0.75 of 1% of the market cap of Bitcoin or circa 0.35 of 1% at it's peak.
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Isn't the issue that the same can be said of btc market cap? i.e. there's only a certain proportion of it that's liquid? Therefore, the proportion of dodgy tether or btc bought with dodgy tether swirling around is higher if we take out the sizeable quantity of btc that is not being traded?

Sunny said:
And before anyone says it, I know central banks can print money but if anyone tries to compare the FED to a company in the British Virgin Islands, I will know this discussion has lost the plot.
Click to expand...
I don't like the ability to magic up money by either of them.
Sunny said:
Maybe there is no big deal here but I wouldn’t bet on it.
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I believe it is a big deal - and one that can't be dealt with soon enough so that crypto can move past that. Regulation is going to be required to reign these guys in and prevent future versions from pulling the same stunt.

However, whilst I believe that some folks are going to get badly burnt here, this doesn't spell the end of crypto in any way, shape or form. It's just another issue that needs to be resolved and shored up in it's ongoing development.
 
tecate said:
Regulation is going to be required to reign these guys in and prevent future versions from pulling the same stunt.
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Hi tecate,

What in your view would this regulation look like, who would perform the regulation and how would they do it?

Firefly.
 
Firefly said:
Hi tecate,

What in your view would this regulation look like, who would perform the regulation and how would they do it?

Firefly.
Click to expand...
If there's going to be a centralised crypto like Tether, then there will have to be a body that can verify that there are USD on account to back Tether - just like they claim. Who would perform it? In this particular instance with them working out of the BVA, I'm not sure. How does it work for banks that work out of the BVA?
 
Where did that chart go, of tethers in circulation and the sudden uptick?
Could that coincide with Bcash price pump, or CBOE and CME Futures?
Or even that Mt. Gox trustee, bear whale dumping coin?
 
Firefly said:
Hi tecate,

What in your view would this regulation look like, who would perform the regulation and how would they do it?

Firefly.
Click to expand...

Well, if a tether-like product is regulated properly, I cannot see how it would not end up being like a regular online bank...
 
ant dee said:
Well, if a tether-like product is regulated properly, I cannot see how it would not end up being like a regular online bank...
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Tether is different. It's a centralised crypto. I wouldn't be a fan..but then it does have a use case. If it didn't people wouldnt be using it (see earlier in this thread for use case).
There are some start ups trying to be both a bank and crypto exchange - OR - allow customers to hold both so there is some merit in your point so long as you accept that both exist - FIAT and Crypto.
 
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