Maintaining PRSI record for Spouse's contributory pension?

Sandpiper

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I've made queries here before about this issue - many thanks to all who helped and I hope that someone can help this time too.

My brother in law working in a local authority, after much deliberation, is finally retiring before the normal age (he is almost 62) and, although he is retiring due to increasing ill health, does not want to actually declare this or get it certified officially (long story!). He has completed more than 40 years of service, so his pension and lump sum will be the same, regardless.

However, my sister has heard that he needs to maintain his PRSI record of payments so that she will be entitled to the contributory old age pension should he die before her. As his pension will then be halved, this will have a considerable effect on her income - there's something about average contributions in the calculation?

I've done some research online on her behalf and it appears that he ought to do one of three things 1) get his doctor to certify this permanent ill health retirement, 2) sign on to maintain credits and declare himself available and seeking work (not going to happen!) or 3) make voluntary annual payments.

My BIL thinks this can't be true and that none of his colleagues or the HR department have any information about this. My sister is worried and I really don't know what to advise since he is adamant that none of the three options suit him and he shouldn't have to do anything as he's paid 40 years+ of everything. Does anyone know anything about this or have any advice they can offer? Can she make enquiries on his behalf with PRSI or will it have to be him?
 
Yes he should sign for credits to ensure a FULL rate of Contributory State pension. At his age he will probably only be required to sign once a year until he is pension age (66)
Did he pay a class A contribution or was the public service rate of class D
 
Thanks for the reply - he pays/paid the D rate as he was in the PS since 1972. Can he sign for credits without actually being available for work and declaring same? This is the problem for him, as he really isn't able to declare that truthfully :(
 
As regards signing for credits just be aware that you are still obliged to be 'looking for and genuinely seeking work' how much they police this these days if even at all , I've no idea.
 
I was signing for credits for over 2 yrs, never heard a word from anyone.
 
As he does not seem to have any class A contributions throughout his working life there will not be any entitlement to a Contributory State Pension. He did not contribute to it. Class D contributions are NOT reckonable for Contributory Pension.
The only reason to sign on would be to protect the entitlement to a widow's pension for his wife should he pre-decease her.
 
As he does not seem to have any class A contributions throughout his working life there will not be any entitlement to a Contributory State Pension. He did not contribute to it. Class D contributions are NOT reckonable for Contributory Pension.
The only reason to sign on would be to protect the entitlement to a widow's pension for his wife should he pre-decease her.

Yes, he understands that, as per my OP. The question is how to legitimately protect her qualification on his stamps once he retires.
 
In my opinion he does not have to do anything. If bil dies your sister will get half his pension plus the widows pension.
 
ryan:- Yes she would get half his pension plus widows pension but she may not get the full rate of widows pension.
After 40 years of work it would be a shame not to have the full rate of widows pension.
Has he spoken to his local SW office, though he sounds like he has never been there before and would not relish the thought. Perhaps some could go with him
 
A Citizens Info office would probably be able to answer his query, might be easier call into one of those.
 
What PRSI contribution class will he be paying on his local authority pension? Will this be enough to maintain the PRSI record for Widow's Pension purposes without needing to sign on for additional credits?
 
What PRSI contribution class will he be paying on his local authority pension? Will this be enough to maintain the PRSI record for Widow's Pension purposes without needing to sign on for additional credits?

Will he pay any PRSI once retired? I thought not, but I can check.

Thanks everyone for the helpful replies - I think we're pretty sure now that he'll have to do something to maintain the full record for my sister. IMO, he'd be best to get the ill-health certification as it IS the truth - anything else involves paying or being economical with the truth.

I can understand his reluctance to have to chase this and I'm amazed the HR section know nothing about it - even the union fobbed him off and said they had no info! There must be other people in this boat with spouses who will be in for a shock when their partner dies, particularly wives with no adequate PRSI record of their own like my sister. I will try and persuade him to go to Citizen's information.
 
"A" contributions suffice for widows pension and his "long yearly average" should ensure full widows pension. As suggested check at Citizens Advice.
 
You might point 3 of this link re qualification for widows pension useful.

Thanks for the link - point number 3 refers to late claims and he's still alive, but I looked at point 2:

To qualify for Widow's, Widower's or Surviving Civil Partner's Contributory Pension either you or your late spouse or civil partner must have:
a) 156 paid social insurance contributions (increasing to 260 from 27 th December 2013) paid to the date of death of the spouse/civil partner or before pension age (currently, age 66), whichever is earlier and
b) have a yearly average of either

  • 39 paid or credited social insurance contributions in either the 3 or 5 years before death of the spouse/civil partner or before they reached pension age (called the 'Short Yearly Average') or
  • at least 24 paid or credited social insurance contributions from the year of first entry into social insurance until either the year of death of the spouse/civil partner or the year they reached pension age, whichever is earlier (called the 'Long Yearly Average').
As he has been paying Class A contributions for more than 40 full years, does this mean that under the Long or Short Yearly Average part that he cannot be reduced to less than 24 in the time he has left before official retirement age (which at the moment is 65 for him)? Or am I reading it wrong?



As an example: 40 (years of service) x 52 (weekly contributions) = 2080, divided by 43 years (3 extra years from 62 - 65) = 48.3 [ie > average 39 or 24 for either calculation]. It seems as if it's only until the official age of retirement that matters here and not a dwindling benefit until he dies?



Even if a person retired 10 years before the official age [40 x 52 = 2080, divided by 50 = 41.6] they'd still manage to beat the average requirement - or am I reading this all wrong? Any input is very much appreciated and thanks again for the help. I really hope this is correct as he can do without the added stress of having to declare himself permanently incapacitated or signing on.
 
The only question here is which level of pension would be available to his widow in the event of her being pre-deceased by her husband.

She will certainly be entitled to a widows pension. At best 100% rate or at worst 98%. That is if the future Budgets or Pension legislation don't do a hatchet job and I don't have my crystal ball to day
 
The OP seems to be contradicting himself. Initially he says Class D was paid, he subsequently says Class A.
 
Sorry, it is Class D - but it's all the same for the Widow's contributory pension as every type qualifies equally AFAIK.
 
The only question here is which level of pension would be available to his widow in the event of her being pre-deceased by her husband.

She will certainly be entitled to a widows pension. At best 100% rate or at worst 98%. That is if the future Budgets or Pension legislation don't do a hatchet job and I don't have my crystal ball to day

Yes, I can see this now as the average must be 48 over the long term to qualify for the full rate. It seems as if she will be okay - assuming the current status quo remains (Mystic Meg and all that :D).

Thanks for all replies.
 
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