LPT: Cranky old guy writes letter to Revenue LPT as reported by the journal.ie

Complainer said:
You mean the same people who benefited hugely from the property boom which largely resulted in large transfers of wealth from the younger generation to the older generation? The same people who's children will be repaying their mortgages into their 60s and 70s, compared to their own generation who finished their mortgages in their 50s. The same people who know that their own children, while having comparable jobs and probably having both partners working will have little hope of owning a decent home in a decent location within a decent lifetime?
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is that actually a question or are you just ranting off becuse you have a chip on your shoulder!
 
maybe the clue is in his username, however every generation tends to blame the one that came before it for every ill that comes its way! i have no doubht that children born today will in years to come blame us for the property bubble, bank collapse,selling out our independents to germany ect...blah blah.
at the end of the the day we are all born into a time slot in history and we make th most of our lot good or bad. blameing the old age pensioners is not just silly but it archives noting.
 
blueband said:
maybe the clue is in his username, however every generation tends to blame the one that came before it for every ill that comes its way! i have no doubht that children born today will in years to come blame us for the property bubble, bank collapse,selling out our independents to germany ect...blah blah.
at the end of the the day we are all born into a time slot in history and we make th most of our lot good or bad. blameing the old age pensioners is not just silly but it archives noting.
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Nobody's blaming them, they are just pointing out that they didn't "build this country" and that misty-eyed rubbish about generations that have gone before is just that; rubbish.
 
ok purple you win....................just promise you wont do any more of monty python stuff!!
 
Complainer said:
The same people who's children will be repaying their mortgages into their 60s and 70s, compared to their own generation who finished their mortgages in their 50s.
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I'm not at all sure about what you posted. There are plenty of people in their 50's who remortgage to fund lifesyle or to take out 'equity' and still have debt, they also remortgaged and gave money to their kids to get them on the property ladder, or gave personal guarantees, all things that fueled the in a big way the property pyramid scheme.

And people who will now have to pay mortgages into their 60's and 70's. As far as I can tell young people were falling over themselves to get 40 year mortgages and quite often on here people come on looking for mortgages of 35 years etc. In any case we're all living longer and will be working longer so presumably it will become the norm to have a mortgage into one's 60's.
 
Complainer has it exactly right, the boom was a shift in "wealth" from the older sectors of society to the younger. It was also based solely on greed, no-one stopped (or very few) to think of the impacts of over-charging for finite resources and where that would end up. They were all mé-feiners and when the music stopped we ended up with thousands of people living in places they never wanted to live because they thought the music would never stop.

By the way, a meeting of my neighbours (which unfortunately I couldn't attend) has decided to come up with, it seems to me, totally spurious valuations for the LPT. The vast majority are putting their houses in bands 3, 4 & 5 which I find ludicrous, they seem to have totally ignored the majority of sales prices in the estate over the past 3 years which were in bands 6 and 7. Whatever about 5, those valuing them at 3 and 4 are deluded or have not made any improvements to the houses since they were built in the 1940s. This is in Dalkey.
 
dereko1969 said:
Complainer has it exactly right, the boom was a shift in "wealth" from the older sectors of society to the younger. It was also based solely on greed, no-one stopped (or very few) to think of the impacts of over-charging for finite resources and where that would end up. They were all mé-feiners and when the music stopped we ended up with thousands of people living in places they never wanted to live because they thought the music would never stop.
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It's a bit simplistic to say it was all based on greed. If you put your house up for sale will you not sell it to the highest bidder? If yes then does that mean you're greedy?
Wage increases and low interest rates caused the housing bubble, not greed.

As a general rule prices are set by income, not the other way around.
 
dereko1969 said:
By the way, a meeting of my neighbours (which unfortunately I couldn't attend) has decided to come up with, it seems to me, totally spurious valuations for the LPT. The vast majority are putting their houses in bands 3, 4 & 5 which I find ludicrous, they seem to have totally ignored the majority of sales prices in the estate over the past 3 years which were in bands 6 and 7. Whatever about 5, those valuing them at 3 and 4 are deluded or have not made any improvements to the houses since they were built in the 1940s. This is in Dalkey.
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In a good Labour Party heartland like Dalkey you should be ok. Revenue will just gauge the sale of smoked salmon to see how hard the locals are being hit. ;)
 
Purple said:
It's a bit simplistic to say it was all based on greed. If you put your house up for sale will you not sell it to the highest bidder? If yes then does that mean you're greedy?
Wage increases and low interest rates caused the housing bubble, not greed.

As a general rule prices are set by income, not the other way around.
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My own recollection was that the housing bubble was all based on greed. People rejoiced in the fact that their properties were achieving ransom values without considering for a second the burden that they were lumping onto the younger generation, including ironically in many cases their own children.

The house price bubble pre-dated and fed the wage increases, not the other way round. Benchmarking for example was a reaction to (largely valid) claims that teachers, Gardai and nurses could no longer afford to buy homes in Irish cities.
 
T McGibney said:
My own recollection was that the housing bubble was all based on greed. People rejoiced in the fact that their properties were achieving ransom values without considering for a second the burden that they were lumping onto the younger generation, including ironically in many cases their own children.

The house price bubble pre-dated and fed the wage increases, not the other way round. Benchmarking for example was a reaction to (largely valid) claims that teachers, Gardai and nurses could no longer afford to buy homes in Irish cities.
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Benchmarking wasn't the start of the pay increases and increases weren't confined to the Public Sector (though in across the two sectors they were highest) but it was joining the Euro on the 1st of January 1999 and the corresponding drop in interest rates that started the ball rolling.

Nobody considers the broader societal impact of looking for the best price they can get when selling their house. In many cased they were trading up so lower prices would have been better. I don't consider that greed.
Buying lots of apartments in the hope of flipping them within a few years, that was greed.
 
Of course it's simplistic, this is letting off steam!

By greed I also meant to imply narrow self-interest. No one thought (or cared) that the price they were getting for their house would have a domino effect on those below them.

It's hilarious to think that Bertie once made a big point about telling us his bedtime reading was "bowling alone" when his policies helped fuel social isolation and a feeling of feck everyone else I'm after making a mint on my two-up two-down in Stonybatter.
 
dereko1969 said:
By the way, a meeting of my neighbours (which unfortunately I couldn't attend) has decided to come up with, it seems to me, totally spurious valuations for the LPT. The vast majority are putting their houses in bands 3, 4 & 5 which I find ludicrous, they seem to have totally ignored the majority of sales prices in the estate over the past 3 years which were in bands 6 and 7. Whatever about 5, those valuing them at 3 and 4 are deluded or have not made any improvements to the houses since they were built in the 1940s. This is in Dalkey.
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Well your neighbours are idiots for sure. We'll be having them on here on AAM in about 4 years when revenue are chasing them for penalties and interest. Save now and repent at leisure. They are tax cheats plain and simple. Maybe someone should point that out to them.
 
T McGibney said:
without considering for a second the burden that they were lumping onto the younger generation, including ironically in many cases their own children.

.
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So will it then be better for the grandchildren, you can buy property now at a lot less than build cost?
 
Complainer said:
You mean the same people who benefited hugely from the property boom which largely resulted in large transfers of wealth from the younger generation to the older generation? The same people who's children will be repaying their mortgages into their 60s and 70s, compared to their own generation who finished their mortgages in their 50s. The same people who know that their own children, while having comparable jobs and probably having both partners working will have little hope of owning a decent home in a decent location within a decent lifetime?
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Complainer's point born out by ESRI report stating that the under 45s are bearing the brunt of the crash.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/...ally-harder-by-recession-esri-finds-1.1392283

But don't dare touch the medical card for the elderly many of whom have very decent pensions and no mortgages - but hey, they vote.
 
dereko1969 said:
Complainer's point born out by ESRI report stating that the under 45s are bearing the brunt of the crash.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/...ally-harder-by-recession-esri-finds-1.1392283

But don't dare touch the medical card for the elderly many of whom have very decent pensions and no mortgages - but hey, they vote.
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well lets hope you have a decent pension sorted out when you become one of these 'dreaded elderly'.... just in case some young upstart might want to take your medical card away!
 
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