Low paid workers should be prioritised for social housing

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Early Riser said:
In principle, why not ? In any contract the terms binding the parties do not have to be mirror images of each other. They can be quite different. If we want to move towards more professional (rather than casual) landlordism there would seem to be merit in this. The landlord buys /builds the investment property for long term rental. He/she is not going to move it to another location. The renter may have to move. The renter should be tied to certain conditions to protect the landlord but not necessarily a 5 year lease.
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If you want certainty you have to give it as well.
 
Early Riser said:
In principle, why not ? In any contract the terms binding the parties do not have to be mirror images of each other. They can be quite different. If we want to move towards more professional (rather than casual) landlordism there would seem to be merit in this. The landlord buys /builds the investment property for long term rental. He/she is not going to move it to another location. The renter may have to move. The renter should be tied to certain conditions to protect the landlord but not necessarily a 5 year lease.
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This may work when the landlord is a professional landlord who have purchased the property specifically for the long term. How you do you see this working for the small/accidental landlord. Surely the terms for both parties of a small/accidental landlord and tenant should be the same (ie equally protective of both sides).
 
The Horseman said:
This may work when the landlord is a professional landlord who have purchased the property specifically for the long term. How you do you see this working for the small/accidental landlord. Surely the terms for both parties of a small/accidental landlord and tenant should be the same (ie equally protective of both sides).
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I accept your point. My opinion, though, is that we need to move towards a more professional rental market. I think this would be better for society, for the economy and for the housing market. How we manage the transition I do not know.
 
Early Riser said:
My opinion, though, is that we need to move towards a more professional rental market. I think this would be better for society, for the economy and for the housing market.
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What brings you to that opinion?
My landlord is a small time operator but is an excellent landlord.
I like the idea of the odd house here and there being rented rather than blocks or estates where every unit is rented. That's not going to continue to be the case if every landlord is a large company.
 
Purple said:
What brings you to that opinion?
My landlord is a small time operator but is an excellent landlord.
I like the idea of the odd house here and there being rented rather than blocks or estates where every unit is rented. That's not going to continue to be the case if every landlord is a large company.
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I don't think either professional nor non professional landlords should dominate the market. Both are needed however the Govt's intervention in the market is scaring both off. With the constant changes landlords both professional and small time landlords will not invest (for the long term) because they don't know what scheme the Govt will come up with next.

I often wonder why if it is so easy and profitable to be a landlord why there are so many vacant properties in Ireland. Surely if it was so easy and with the incentives the Govt are offering to bring a property up to rental standards people are not jumping at the chance of making "easy" money.

I understand the a lot of the Approved Housing Bodies have leased property for 20yrs and don't actually own them, are we looking at a housing crisis in 20yrs time when the leases come up for renewal?
 
Purple said:
That's not going to continue to be the case if every landlord is a large company
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It doesn't necessarily have to be a large company.

Purple said:
My landlord is a small time operator but is an excellent landlord.
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Great, but not all are (nor are all tenants, lest I be accused of leaving this out). And have you security of tenure or could you face eviction again through no fault of your own ?
 
It's too hard to get a bad tenant out. It's too hard to get paid if they stop paying. It's too hard to get tenants to cover the costs of damage to a property. Landlords get taxed on turnover, not profit. Those are the reasons why landlords leave the market. It doesn't matter though; the property doesn't cease to exist, someone else moves in. The net impact on the housing shortage is zero.
 
Early Riser said:
Great, but not all are (nor are all tenants, lest I be accused of leaving this out). And have you security of tenure or could you face eviction again through no fault of your own ?
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Not all companies are good to deal with either. I have as good a level of security as anyone else paying rent in the private sector. I would have more options if so much of my income wasn't being taken to provide housing for people who choose not to work.
 
Early Riser said:
It doesn't necessarily have to be a large company.



Great, but not all are (nor are all tenants, lest I be accused of leaving this out). And have you security of tenure or could you face eviction again through no fault of your own ?
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Can I suggest then if someone wants security of tenure (for a long period) then they look for accommodation with a professional landlord who in all certainty would not be selling properties individually (assuming they own a block of apartments) but would sell them to another institutional investor so your landlord is changing but you are still in the same property.

If you only want a property to rent for a short period then you can rent either from a professional landlord or a small/accidental landlord.
 
The Horseman said:
Can I suggest then if someone wants security of tenure (for a long period) then they look for accommodation with a professional landlord who in all certainty would not be selling properties individually (assuming they own a block of apartments) but would sell them to another institutional investor so your landlord is changing but you are still in the same property.

If you only want a property to rent for a short period then you can rent either from a professional landlord or a small/accidental landlord.
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Why not legislate that the tenant isn't impacted by the sale of the property, just like a business lease?
Landlords wan't the property for their use or their families use? Tough luck! The resident has a contract which entitles them to reside there until the contract is up.
 
The Horseman said:
I often wonder why if it is so easy and profitable to be a landlord why there are so many vacant properties in Ireland.
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Perhaps, Purple supplies at least part of the reason here:

Purple said:
It's too hard to get a bad tenant out. It's too hard to get paid if they stop paying. It's too hard to get tenants to cover the costs of damage to a property
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I fully agree with increasing the rights of landlords in regard to the above - and making the system of enforcing such rights more efficient. But that does not mean that the rights and protections for tenants cannot be equally increased and protected.

Purple said:
Those are the reasons why landlords leave the market. It doesn't matter though; the property doesn't cease to exist, someone else moves in. The net impact on the housing shortage is zero.
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I don't know about the housing shortage but I think it affects the rental and housing markets. The rental market is too insecure. It is too difficult for people too feel that a rental property is a "home". Everyone wants to get on the "property ladder". Then they are stuck in one place with a mortgage. Will the market then increase, stagnate or fall - leaving negative equity?
 
Purple said:
Why not legislate that the tenant isn't impacted by the sale of the property, just like a business lease?
Landlords wan't the property for their use or their families use? Tough luck! The resident has a contract which entitles them to reside there until the contract is up.
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In the future yes this could be done but I would be against it for existing small time landlords. You have devalued the property and your potential market to sell it ie owner occupiers would not want to buy it.
 
Purple said:
Why not legislate that the tenant isn't impacted by the sale of the property, just like a business lease?
Landlords wan't the property for their use or their families use? Tough luck! The resident has a contract which entitles them to reside there until the contract is up.
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I would be strongly in favour of this. Just because a property changes hands shouldn't mean those renting it should be forced out.
 

Firefly said:
Thanks, I was mixing your posts up with those from TheBigShort
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Not the first either is it that you have mixed up our posts? In fact, one of your previous posts had to be deleted by the moderator because you were speculating that Early Riser and me are the same person.
Or if you are in no way speculating, then you must have poor attention span which explains why you need so many clarifications.
 
TheBigShort said:
Not the first either is it that you have mixed up our posts? In fact, one of your previous posts had to be deleted by the moderator because you were speculating that Early Riser and me are the same person.
Or if you are in no way speculating, then you must have poor attention span which explains why you need so many clarifications.
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It must be nice all the same to have someone else who agrees with you on nearly everything!
 
The Horseman said:
In the future yes this could be done but I would be against it for existing small time landlords. You have devalued the property and your potential market to sell it ie owner occupiers would not want to buy it.
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Rent caps have done the same thing. This is about broad public policy, it will negatively impact on some landlords but basically it's a case of tough luck; the greater good has to be served and it's not some breach of a basic human right. It will also lead to fewer casual landlords who are really just investors looking for someone to cover their mortgage until they can flip their property.
 
Firefly said:
It must be nice all the same to have someone else who agrees with you on nearly everything!
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No different to yourself I'm sure

Firefly said:
Well I tell you something, Brendan's views are pretty much in line with my own (a few differences but not much) and if someone was to run for election with this as their only mandate they would get my (and a lot of others I would imagine) vote.
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Tbh, I don't know what Early Risers views are on a lot of issues, so I wouldn't know if s/he nearly agrees with me on nearly everything.
 
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