Ulster Lost UB Tracker the switched to AIB. Advise needed re:Redress offered

Whatthe

Registered User
Messages
7
Really need opinions/advise on this one...

Briefly,


Took out mortgage with UB in 2004 (ecb+0.85% for life of mortgage in special conditions of original offer)
Fixed in Jul 2007 for 2 years.
Was incorrectly put on SVR on coming off fixed rate in Aug 2009
Backs up against the wall financially so immediately shopped around as knew we could not afford the rate at the time, we had just built an extension and were paying back a separate loan for this.
Moved to fixed in AIB Oct 2009, at the same time topping up by approx. 40,000 to amalgamate other loan and make things more manageable.

Now this is the thing,
We have been deemed as impacted,We received redress and compensation letter and cheque from UB last Thursday. They have admitted that they should have not taken our tracker away from us. They have offered us 12.5% compensation and approx. 950 euros in overpaid interest for the 2 months we were with them before we moved to AIB plus 400 towards getting financial advise. They have stated that we may be able to move back onto a tracker with them if we are deemed Eligible (they won't tell me at what rate though)

I am not happy at all, We were forced to move to AIB by very nature of the fact that out Tracker was taken away for us, We did not do it for the 'laugh' and indeed we had to pay for the pleasure in Legal fees. As a direct result of our tracker being taken away from us we have ended up loosing thousands and thousands of euros over the last 8 years.
My Question is,is it reasonable to assume that UB are liable for this even though we switched? Do I have a case for appeal or would I be just wasting my time?.
 

Brendan Burgess

Founder
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38,912
If someone had a €200k mortgage and switched from Ulster Bank to AIB, then Ulster Bank should do the following:

1) Calculate the overpayment you have made in the 8 years since you switched to AIB and refund that to you.
2) Had you stayed with Ulster, then the balance today would be, say, €160k. They should take you back on the tracker at €160k .
3)They should also fund the legal fees of moving to AIB and the legal fees of moving back.

If they give you a refund of €30k, and offer you a mortgage of €160k but your current mortgage with AIB is €210k, it might cause a problem for you.

I know some lenders have in the past argued that the reason you moved was so that you could borrow the extra €40k.

Others have argued that they will only take people back subject to credit assessment. This is rubbish.

So you should write to Ulster Bank
1) You want a refund for the amount overpaid since 2009. - send them the AIB mortgage statements since then.
2) You want to be taken back on your tracker
3) You want the legal fees.

See how they respond before deciding what to do next.

When you get a final proposal from them, it may well suit you to say to them, that instead of taking you back and paying the legal costs, you will settle for an additional payment of €x. They probably won't go for this as tracker mortgages are now profitable for all the lenders.

Brendan
 

Whatthe

Registered User
Messages
7
Thanks for that Brendan,

A couple of questions,
If I send them the AIB statements since 2009, that will include the extra interest on the 40K, will they just calculate the difference themselves?
We already had the 40k borrowed iykwim, it was however from the credit union, we had been making repayments on this for a number of months. It was not 'new' money for want of a better word. We were not borrowing or indeed need to borrow any extra money at the time we were just moving it over to so we would only have one repayment. Would that make it a different argument do you think? We would have happily restructured with UB if they hadn't put us on such a big SVR after taking us off our tracker.

Finally, just to confirm, you advise writing this letter prior to embarking on any appeals process?
 

Brendan Burgess

Founder
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38,912
Yes, I would expect them to do the work, not you.

In my opinion, the €40k should not matter. However, I have seen banks argue before that the additional €40k was the reason that the borrower switched mortgages.

I suppose you have to go through the formal appeals system rather than write a simple letter.

Brendan
 

Whatthe

Registered User
Messages
7
And who in the main (in your experience Brendan) has won these arguments....The banks?
 

notabene

Frequent Poster
Messages
370
Hi @Whatthe I haven't had a letter back regarding redress from UB yet though I did have a letter three weeks ago saying that redress would occur before Christmas. I am in a very similar situation to you, though the figures are different. I had suspected that the bank might do this and that 'proper' redress would have to be fought for. Mainly as they hadn't asked for mortgage statements etc

I'm interested to know when they said they should not have taken the tracker did they admit liability or did the say it was as a result of an error or anything like that? Also did the say what they deemed eligibe to move back to the tracker or when that might occur?

I do wonder and had been for the last few weeks would they do this to T it up for making lumpsum payments rather than taking the tracker customers back because as I understand it that is an easier solution to the issue.
 
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Whatthe

Registered User
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Ok, so it basically says that it is' the use of ambiguous and confusing terminology has been identified as a lack of transparency in some of the documentation you received'. '
'When you drew down on a tracker rate you received a letter of offer that used the term 'Home loan' to describe your mortgage. When you moved to a fixed rate the document you received, when read in conjunction with your letter of offer, was unclear as to the default rate that was to apply on the end of your fixed term.
'This document referred to the default interest rate as follows..."the ulster bank home loan rate shall apply in accordance with general condition 2 of the offer of advance originally accepted by you..."
It was your original 'Home loan' rate, which was a tracker rate.
It goes on to say that as the terminology was unclear regarding what rate would apply to you mortgage when your fixed rate came to an end we have identified you as impacted.
 
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notabene

Frequent Poster
Messages
370
ok so they didn't outright admit liability really if they are going back to saying a lack of transparency. I would argue that though and say the original mortgage document was very clear. They also referred to general condition 2 in my case as a means to have returned me to the tracker had I still been a customer so I would (and will) definitely argue them on it.

The original documents didn't change and while they said the tracker was for the life of the mortgage this did not preclude fixing it for a period. The fixed rate document did not say you would lose your tracker either. No other documentation was issued at the time of fixing.
 

Whatthe

Registered User
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7
It goes on to say what UB will do to address issue namely, compo, redress, no mention of getting tracker back until you get to section 5 (other important information)which states:
"As you are an impacted customer and you have redeemed your mortgage, you may be eligible to apply for a mortgage with UB on a tracker rate.. This is subject to
-Eligibility criteria,
-Credit assessment
-Terms and conditions

Then it gives you the helpline number to ring to enquire about eligibility for returning to a tracker mortgage
When you ring them they don't have a clue basically, after being kept on hold they finally tell me that they will be sending me out ANOTHER information/application pack containing information on how to apply. Assured me it will be with me in a two week timeframe.
When I asked why It wasn't sent with the Redress/ compensation pack was met with silence.......refused to discuss rates with me, said it was a different department. I asked them how I could be expected to apply for something if I didn't know what I was actually applying for, and could they transfer me to the said dept who did know, again no joy.
Put it this way the whole thing isn't exactly flagged in bold.
 

Brendan Burgess

Founder
Messages
38,912
ok so they didn't outright admit liability really if they are going back to saying a lack of transparency.
Hi notabene

This argument is now irrelevant. They have admitted that Whatthe should have been offered a tracker. There is no need for him to make that argument any more.

The only issue is whether Ulster takes him back from AIB or not. I expect that they will.

Brendan
 

Brendan Burgess

Founder
Messages
38,912
When I asked why It wasn't sent with the Redress/ compensation pack was met with silence.......refused to discuss rates with me, said it was a different department. I asked them how I could be expected to apply for something if I didn't know what I was actually applying for,
What the

This is really a complicated process, so be patient.

The publicity and the Central Bank forced them to do these things quickly. Complex cases like this should not have been done quickly.

Relax. Wait until you get the package and see what it says. No need to do anything for the moment.

Brendan
 

notabene

Frequent Poster
Messages
370
@Whatthe presumably you should be returned to the rate you were on in your contract as per the others - wait and see but definitely a step in the right direction
 

Whatthe

Registered User
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7
That is what I would hope Notabene but as Brendan rightly pointed out though the extra money we borrowed could cause us a problem. This is were getting back all the money we are owed could become very important in offsetting the mortgage so we can transfer over.
Anyway I suppose we will just have to wait and see. I will keep you posted as to what the Mortgage information pack contains when it arrives. Thanks for all your advise folks and Notabene, I hope you get your letter soon.
 

Brendan Burgess

Founder
Messages
38,912
Hi Pat

Again it's clear to me that you should have been given that already. That is why it's so important for all of you who are affected by this to complain to the Central BAnk so that they tell Ulster Bank to do this properly.

Brendan
 

Whatthe

Registered User
Messages
7
Update:
Well, received Appeal form and information pack in the post today following request made last week. There is ALOT of supporting documentation.
Wondering if I should just go ahead and fill this out myself then if appeal is rejected then go down the route of getting professional advise or just get the professionals in from the start?
 
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