Lost UB tracker; FSOrejected complaint; switched lender and now got our tracker back via CB revie

B

BlueButton

Registered User
Messages
32
Mods note: This very interesting thread began in 2012

We took out a (RIP) tracker investment mortgage in 2005 - repaying both capital & interest. We have been fortunate to have, so far, been able to make our repayments in full & on time.

The letter of offer from 2005 states, in the section called 'Special Conditions relating to Loan XXX' :

'The rate of the XXX Bank Flexible Mortgage tracks ECB rate with a margin which is fixed for the life of the Home Loan term. The margin for this Home Loan is ECB rate plus 1.65%. This margin is dependent on the amount borrowed and the value of the property to be mortgaged.'

There's no further reference to the tracker rate in the letter of offer. There's also no mention that we would be changing the contract, our entitlement to a tracker rate or that the tracker rate would be lost if we subsequently changed to a fixed or standard variable rate or the reprecussions of doing so.

In March 2010, as rates & repayments had risen and seemed to be on an upward curve, we checked the options available and were given 4 options - 3 were fixed rates over 2, 3 & 4 years approx and an Investment Flexible Variable rate.

We opted for the Investment Fixed until 31/12/2011 reverting to Standard Variable.

A synopsis of the terms Under the conditions on the Rate Change Letter of Authority are as follows:
Transfer from fixed rate to standard variable rate at the end of the term:
On the expiry of the fixed rate term I/We may, by prior notice in writing to the company, opt to choose a further fixed rate of interest for a certain period, if such an option is made available by the Company. Where such an option is not available or I/We fail to exercise the option if available, the interest rate applicable will be a rate of interest which may be increased or reduced by the company from time to time.

Transfer Authority: I/We acknowledge that my/our mortgage will be transferred to the rate I/We have selected above and that the above conditions will apply where I/We have selected a fixed rate.

It does clearly state we will revert to a Standard Variable rate. There was no mention of the tracker in the correspondance or it not being an available option at the expiry date.

The fixed rate expired on 31/12/2011 and we received correspondance from the lender advising us of this. They said 'Any borrowings you have on this fixed rate will automatically roll to the Standard Variable Rate Default Option. Alternatively you might choose a new variable or fixed rate.' We were given a number of options but no tracker rate option.

I e.mailed their Customer Services and said the options we received doesn't include a tracker rate option and asked what rate & monthly repayment would our mortgage be on a tracker?

I subsequently received a call just before xmas, from a staff member and he said we had signed up to revert to the variable rate. When I challenged him on this with regard to the terms of the Letter of Offer he said we'd changed the terms & conditions of our original mortgage when we signed up for the fixed rate. I told him I'd be checking the terms of the rate change request and the letter of offer...that's how we left it.....

Are they within their rights to nullify the tracker rate as quoted in the original Letter of Offer?
Should they have offered us the option of reverting to a tracker rate, in view of the terms of the letter of offer?
Shouldn't the implications of giving up the tracker & going fixed have been explained to us?
The change of rate letter doesn't state that it replaces or supercedes the terms of our original mortgage offer. Does our original contract not guarantee us a 'tracker rate' for the life of the Home Loan term - as stated?
Is there any point in we pushing them to put us back on a tracker?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I have just noticed this now as it was tagged onto a Key Post.

The fact that this happened in March 2010, may give you grounds for complaint.

In October 2008, the Financial Regulator issued this press release.

[broken link removed]

Press Release 22 October 2008

The Consumer Director of the Financial Regulator, Mary O’Dea today warned that mortgage lenders must act in the best interests of their customers when providing advice on switching tracker mortgages to fixed or variable rate mortgages.
Reminding mortgage lenders of their obligations Mary O’Dea said “Mortgage lenders must make sure that they understand each consumer’s individual needs and circumstances before recommending that any consumer switches from his or her current mortgage. Lenders must be able to demonstrate compliance with the statutory Consumer Protection Code. In particular any recommendation must be in the consumer’s best interests and they must recommend a mortgage that is more suitable for the individual consumer than the tracker mortgage. Lenders should fully disclose the short, medium and long-term effects of switching to each consumer.”
She stated that “lenders must be in a position to demonstrate how they have concluded that each individual consumer’s tracker mortgage is no longer suitable for that consumer. Their assessments and recommendations must be consumer-focussed and must be in the consumer’s best interests.”
Click to expand...

The question here is whether the bank gave you advice or not? If they encouraged you to switch and did not fully explain the implications, then you may have a complaint.

On the other hand, they will argue, that they did not give you advice. They simply presented you with the options and you took one. They will argue that this is clear

Transfer from fixed rate to standard variable rate at the end of the term:
Click to expand...

It certainly would not meet the current standards as set out by the Central Bank in August 2010

[broken link removed]

Press Release 23 August 2010

- Tracker customers should be informed of switching implications - ​
[broken link removed]
The Central Bank and Financial Regulator today published the findings of an examination of switching practices related to tracker mortgages by mortgage lenders and relevant customer communications. A number of concerns were identified during the examination about the level of disclosure and transparency when consumers moved from tracker rate mortgages to other forms of mortgages.
The Central Bank and Financial Regulator has written to all mortgage lenders detailing the findings from the examination and outlining a number of new measures to be introduced immediately to ensure consumers fully understand the implications of switching from a tracker mortgage. Issues identified are subject to separate supervisory engagement with individual firms.
The examination found that in some cases communication on the financial implications and consequences of switching were not fully transparent to the customer and that it was not always clear that if a customer moved from a tracker rate mortgage to an alternative interest rate (fixed, variable or other rate), for any reason, that their agreed tracker rate or an alternative tracker rate might not be available again in the future.
As a result of this finding mortgage lenders have been requested to fully disclose the impact of any switch from a tracker mortgage rate in all customer communications, with immediate effect. Customers must be notified that switching from a tracker rate may mean they will lose the ability to avail of a tracker rate mortgage in the future, where this is the case.
Mortgage lenders have been advised to include new information in all customer communications regarding switches from tracker rate mortgages, for any reason, with immediate effect:

  • Indicative comparisons of the cost of monthly repayments of the customer’s current tracker rate mortgage and the rates being offered; and
  • Details of the advantages and disadvantages of both the tracker mortgage rate compared to the other rates being offered.
Click to expand...
 
Hi,​


Further to my previous posts, we have written to our lender and subsequently referred it to the FSO to have our mortgage changed back to a tracker rate but they're still refusing.​


The wording on our original letter of offer stated :
'The rate of the XXX Bank Flexible Mortgage tracks ECB rate with a margin which is fixed for the life of the Home Loan term. The margin for this Home Loan is ECB rate plus 1.65%. This margin is dependent on the amount borrowed and the value of the property to be mortgaged.' ​


The bank has now replied :
This condition does not state that the XXX Bank Flexible Mortgage rate would be fixed for the life of the loan. We believe this condition clearly and unambigously stated that the margin of this rate was fixed for the life of the loan (and not the rate itself.) This meant that had the loan remained on this interest rate, regardless of amendments to the ECB base rate, the margin of 1.65% would remain fixed for the life of the loan.​


To me it wasn't clearly indicated that the tracker rate wasn't for the lifetime of the mortgage but maybe others disagree. I'd be interested in how others interpret that wording. Is the bank playing with words to their advantage?​


Many thanks,
Bluebutton​
 
Hi Bluebutton,

i lost my tracker with exact same wording with First Active, i will regret the decision to fix for the rest of my life as it is now costing us a fortune in interest, did you do any more?
 
I moved banks in 2009 as a result of loosing the tracker, i spoke to a financial advisor who said my case would not be strong as a result of this. I would not have moved if i thought i had a case, it has only come to light on these forums since then. Costing about 5000 a year extra in interest, i wish i had not fixed.
 
Hi Smithers,

We referred our complaint to the Financial Services Ombudsman but unfortunately their decision was in the banks favour. We could have appealed their decision to the High Court but we weren't prepared to go that route.

While we're very disappointed with the outcome, we're still glad we referred it to the FSO for their deliberation.
Our experience may be of assistance to you and others on AAM, so I'm posting their reply:

The issue for adjudication is whether the bank wrongfully failed to offer the complainants the options of switching their mortgage loan back to a tracker rate of 1.65% above the ECB rate (ie. the original contractual tracker rate) upon the expiry of the second fixed rate term on the 31 December 2011.

The complainants submit that they formed an expectation that they would be given the option of re-availing of their original tracker rate upon the expiry of the second fixed rate term applying to their mortgage due to the stipulation in their Offer of Advance dated the 20 January 2005 that their tracker rate margin would be ’fixed for the life of the Home Loan’.

They further point out that they were offered a tracker rate when their first fixed rate term ended. The bank, however, submits that it was not contractually obligated to offer the complainants a tracker rate in December 2011, and further, that the complainants were advised of the fact that such an option might not be available at the conclusion of the fixed rate period.

It is indeed the case that when the complainants entered into the mortgage agreement in questions with the bank, it was agreed between the parties that a tracker rate of 1.65% above the ECB rate would apply for the life of the loan. In this regard the first Special Condition of the Offer of Advance dated the 20 January 2005 provides as follows:

“The rate of the XXXXX Bank flexible Mortgage tracks the ECB rate with a margin which is fixed for the life of the Home Loan term. The margin for this Home Loan is ECB rate plus 1.65%…”

On the 2 August 2006, however, the complainants opted to switch their loan from the contractual tracker rate to a fixed rate of interest. Upon expiry of this first fixed rate term in 2008 the complainants were offered the option of returning to their original tracker rate but they opted instead to allow their mortgage account to roll onto the banks’ standard variable rate.

In their submission to us, the complainants explained that they were of the view that in 2008 it was in their best interests to avail of the banks standard variable rate because at that time the banks variable rate was lower than the tracker rate.

The complainants do not take issue with the interest rate options they were offered in 2008, when the first fixed rate term expired. Rather, their complaint focuses on what transpired upon expiry of the second fixed rate term in December 2011.

In September 2010 the Complainants decided to fix the interest rate applying to their mortgage loan for a second time. In order to instruct the application of a fixed interest rate of 4.40% to their mortgage loan, they completed a Rate Change Letter of Authority. When this fixed rate term concluded in late 2011, however, the Complainants were not given the option of switching back to the original tracker rate of 1.65% above the ECB rate.

Having considered the content of the fixed rate agreement form the complainants completed in 2010 to instruct the application of a fixed interest rate to their mortgage loan, I am satisfied that the said document did not contain any commitment from the bank whereby the bank was obligated to offer the complainants the option of re-availing of their original tracker rate.

As such, I am satisfied the bank committed no error when it failed to offer the complainants the option of returning to the original tracker rate of 1.65% above the ECB rate. The rate change letter of authority clearly provided that upon the expiry of the fixed rate period an interest rate amendable at the discretion of the bank would apply to the loan in default of an alternative interest rate being offered and selected.

In my view the language used on the form was clear and comprehensive and adequately warned the reader that an alternative interest rate would only be offered if such an option were available.

So, while the document the complainants signed provided for the possibility of another interest rate being offered at the end of the fixed rate term, it contained no guarantee that any specific interest rate, tracker or otherwise, would be so offered. It is also clear that the default rate envisaged by the bank was not a tracker rate as tracker rates cannot be varied by the bank from time to time but rather, are amended in accordance with the ECB rate. That the mortgage loan would default to a standard variable rate upon expiry of the fixed rate term was also highlighted within the description of the fixed interest rate option selected by the complainants.

Considering the content of the fixed rate agreement document the complainants signed on the 30 March 2010, I am satisfied that not only were the complainants on notice of the fact that they might not be given the option of re-availing of the original tracker rate upon expiry of the (second) fixed rate term, but further, that they agreed to this arrangement.

So, although a tracker rate of interest was to apply to the complainants’ mortgage from loan inception for the duration of the loan term in accordance with the original Offer of Advance, I am satisfied that the complainants relinquished their entitlement to avail of a tracker rate when they signed the rate change letter of Authority on the 30 March 2010.

While the complainants point to the fact that they were offered the option of switching their loan back to a tracker rate upon expiry of the first fixed rate term, it must be borne in mind that the document they completed in 2006 to instruct the application of a fixed rate was couched in substantially different terms to the document they completed in 2010. Another distinguishing factor is that in July 2008
(ie. at the time of the completion of the first fixed rate term), tracker rates still formed part of the Bank’s suite of interest rate products; this was not the case in December 2011 when the complainants second fixed rate term ended.

Considering all of the above, I am satisfied that the bank acted correctly with regard to the interest rate options offered to the complainants upon expiry of the fixed rate applying to their mortgage loan on the 31 December 2011. For the reasons outlined above, I am unable to substantiate this complaint.
 
Hi,

From my previous posts above, you can read how impossible it was to get our tracker rate reinstated by both Ulster Bank and the FSO. Maybe my story will offer some hope to others on AAM.

With the ongoing CB Tracker Review, I e.mailed Ulster Bank last July & asked them to confirm that our investment mortgage was included in their review.

No reply received, so sent follow-up e.mails in Aug and Nov. They confirmed by letter in November that we would be reviewed and I started to receive the standard 60 day 'update' letter (received 2 to date - nothing prior to my e.mails).

Today, I received confirmation that we had been impacted by 'the use of ambiguous and confusing terminology in our mortgage documentation' ...!!

'From 1/1/2017 the interest rate on your mortgage sub account has been changed to your original tracker margin of 1.65% + the current ECB rate. '

They will continue with their detailed assessment of our mortgage. This is likely to take a number of months due to the complexity of the review and the necessity for independent assurance by a third party.

They will write again in March to provide an update on the progress of the review, which will include time frames for :

*Any redress,
*Details of a repayment towards the cost of independent professional advice and
*The independent appeals process will be available to me.


The monthly repayment we're currently paying is €819.17 based on 4.30% - Standard Variable Rate.
From 1/2/2017 payments will reduce to €695.56 on 1.65% Tracker Interest Rate.

I'm absolutely DELIGHTED, having gone through years of stress with higher monthly repayments, the brick wall attitude from the bank, and worse still - the treatment meted out to us and to so many tracker mortgage holders by the FSO. They should have been on the consumers side, but they sided wrongly, as is now proven, with the lenders in so many many cases. The current Central Bank Governor, has to be commended for the change in attitude and initiating the ongoing tracker review.
 
Congratulations Blue Button so delighted for you. I was onto you before and you have the EXACT same wording i had on my fixed rate. Still waiting to hear from them, i did change banks though.....
 
smithers said:
i did change banks though.....
Click to expand...

Hi smithers

I feel very strongly about this.

You didn't change banks because you thought the wallpaper was nicer in the new bank.

You changed because their mortgage rate was less than the rate you were being incorrectly charged by Ulster Bank.

If you had been left on your tracker, you would not have changed for the higher rate.

You must contact Ulster Bank to confirm that they are reviewing your case. They might not be because you are no longer a customer.

You also have to hassle the Central Bank on this. I have alerted them to this, but it appears that they have not issued the banks with guidelines "Take people back who have moved if they lost their tracker incorrectly.".

You can take strength from Blue Button's great story.

Brendan
 
Thanks Brendan it is great advice you are correct only changed because of them overcharging me. I am part of the review i get a letter every 60 days, lots of them, got one in the last few weeks.
 
smithers said:
I am part of the review i get a letter every 60 days, lots of them, got one in the last few weeks.
Click to expand...

Grand. So you do not need to contact Ulster Bank.

However, I strongly suggest that you contact the Central Bank. Don't even mention Ulster Bank in your letter. Say the following:

"I have been notified by my former mortgage lender that they are including me in the tracker review.
However, I switched lender after losing my tracker.
I want to make sure that they compensate me not just for the loss up until the time I switched, but that they also take me back as a customer on the tracker mortgage rate.
Please send me a copy of the Guidelines you have issued to the lenders to cover such situations."

If you mention Ulster Bank, they will send you a generic response we can't discuss the bank's affairs with you.

However, if you don't mention them, they will have to come up with a different excuse to fob you off. They might actually send it to you.

Brendan
 
@smithers

I got my letter notifying me that I am an impacted customer with UB yesterday also but like you I had also changed banks - hopefully something will come in the door for you soon but as Brendan said contact them - I have been a flee in their ear - there was no way they were forgetting me ;-)
 
notabene thanks I have been following your thread, please keep us updated on what happens as your situation is so similar to mine. I'll update once I get the letter and I am going to write to the Central Bank as advised by Brendan (thank you Brendan).
 
Bluebutton - What email address did you contact them by ? I am in the exact same position and thus far have sat on my fingers. I have also changed address a few times since so have no idea whether they are contacting me or not although I now reside at the place I had the original mortgage with them.
 
Hi,

My mortgage was taken out and is still with UB, it wasn't a FA mortgage at any time. There were no changes to it except for fixing the rate (twice), no top-ups or payment holidays.

The e.mail address I contacted them on was : [email protected]
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top