Life Assurance / Mortgage protection and NIB
- Thread starter Sumatra
- Start date
I got one of these in the door yesterday for a 2.5 year old mortgage. The cover letter was written in a very nonchalant manner, stating that this was a document that should have been in place when I took out my mortgage but unfortunately it hadn't been. It's written as if NIB had just forgotten to get this document in place and that now it needs to be done.
If anyone has had any dealings with NIB, you wouldn't be surprised that something was missed - therefore I didn't think much of the document initially.
However, I wouldn't necessarily say that the document is just confirming details of my life assurance policy, although this policy name and number is mentioned. It was accompanied by a 10 page legal document with request for signatures at the back. I started to take a look at this last night
Upon initial glance the one thing that struck me and raised serious alarm bells was a clause that appears to give them some sort of claim on any stocks or shares that I own, should anything happen that prevents me from paying the mortgage.
I need to go through this with a fine tooth comb now, as there's no way that I'l be signing over any form of claim against my other assets and stocks/shares.
Anyone else received one of these and looked at it in any detail yet ?
If anyone has had any dealings with NIB, you wouldn't be surprised that something was missed - therefore I didn't think much of the document initially.
However, I wouldn't necessarily say that the document is just confirming details of my life assurance policy, although this policy name and number is mentioned. It was accompanied by a 10 page legal document with request for signatures at the back. I started to take a look at this last night
Upon initial glance the one thing that struck me and raised serious alarm bells was a clause that appears to give them some sort of claim on any stocks or shares that I own, should anything happen that prevents me from paying the mortgage.
I need to go through this with a fine tooth comb now, as there's no way that I'l be signing over any form of claim against my other assets and stocks/shares.
Anyone else received one of these and looked at it in any detail yet ?
Here is the clause that I mentioned earlier. This was worse than I originally thought - this seems to be giving them claim on any other property also !!!!
The Bank shall as an additional security for the moneys hereby secured have a lien and charge on all stocks shares securities and other property of the Mortgagor which of the certificates scrip or other documents of title wherof now are or shall hereafter be deposited with or hold by the Bank whether for safe custody or for any other special purpose or otherwise and on all moneys now or hereafter standing to the credit of the Mortgagor with the Bank whether on any current or other account.
Is this unbelievable cheek or what !! I certainly won't be signing this document unless these types of clauses are removed.
DrMoriarty
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K-Man, I think you may have received something rather more than what Sumatra is talking about (?) — and I certainly wouldn't sign anything until you're satisfied as to its consequences. Why not ring them and ask them for an explanation, for starters?
I got a one-page letter from NIB saying they didn't have a current record of our current life assurance and home insurance policies, and would I please forward a copy of same in the enclosed Freepost envelope. I wasn't all that surprised about the home insurance, since I've changed insurer three times in the last four years. But the life assurance policy has been in force continuously since 2005, when I moved to NIB.
When an insurance policy has a lender's interest noted on it, the insurer is required to notify that lender in the event of the policy lapsing. But if this mailout is as widespread as Sumatra suggests, it suggests either a systemic overhaul of records by NIB or ...some kind of loss of records?
I got a one-page letter from NIB saying they didn't have a current record of our current life assurance and home insurance policies, and would I please forward a copy of same in the enclosed Freepost envelope. I wasn't all that surprised about the home insurance, since I've changed insurer three times in the last four years. But the life assurance policy has been in force continuously since 2005, when I moved to NIB.
When an insurance policy has a lender's interest noted on it, the insurer is required to notify that lender in the event of the policy lapsing. But if this mailout is as widespread as Sumatra suggests, it suggests either a systemic overhaul of records by NIB or ...some kind of loss of records?
I got the same one page letter from NIB this week looking for up to date details of my home insurance and life assurance. I sent them a copy of the current home insurance but as our life policy has not changed since we took out the mortgage about 2 and half years ago I told them the details we gave them then are still valid. I'm waiting to see if they have actually lost our life assurance details and get back to me looking for it!
I guess I should give my Account Mgr a call to explain what this is all about alright.
But correct me if I'm wrong, has anyone ever had this sort of claim put on an outstanding mortgage. It seems a bit much to me and something that doesn't seem right.
Maybe I'm just being viewed as being a seriously high risk or something ?
DrMoriarty
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It's hard to say from the few details you've posted here, but to my untrained ear it sounds almost like a formal letter of offer — the document that has to be signed and witnessed on drawing down a mortgage in the first instance. It seems almost impossible that you could have been issued a mortgage 2.5 years ago without having this in place, which leads me to wonder (again) whether it mightn't be a case of an original document having gone missing somehow?
Do you have (as you certainly should) a copy of your original letter of offer, and if so how does it compare to the text of what's now been sent to you?
Do you have (as you certainly should) a copy of your original letter of offer, and if so how does it compare to the text of what's now been sent to you?
LDFerguson
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My non-legal interpretation of that paragraph is that NIB have a charge over any stocks, shares etc...that you give to NIB.
I got the one page letter which I interpreted as saying that the bank had lost the details of the life insurance covering the property and wanted me to go to the broker and get another copy.
I replied by reminding them that they had a duty under the data protection legislation to keep any information safe and confidential. And as the insurance policy would have included personal information, I asked them to investigate the loss of the documment and issue me with a report explaining the loss and if not I would refer the matter to the data protection comissioner.
I also sent the letter to the Director who had stamped the letter, not the dept that sent it.
Hopefully they will search a bit harder for it, enough of this information has ended up in skips and landfill over the past few years.
[broken link removed]
Also, unlike one of the previous posters, there was no account number on the letter. I have 2 mortgage products and I was not sure which one they were refering to.
I replied by reminding them that they had a duty under the data protection legislation to keep any information safe and confidential. And as the insurance policy would have included personal information, I asked them to investigate the loss of the documment and issue me with a report explaining the loss and if not I would refer the matter to the data protection comissioner.
I also sent the letter to the Director who had stamped the letter, not the dept that sent it.
Hopefully they will search a bit harder for it, enough of this information has ended up in skips and landfill over the past few years.
[broken link removed]
Also, unlike one of the previous posters, there was no account number on the letter. I have 2 mortgage products and I was not sure which one they were refering to.
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I would not sign anything without getting your solicitors advice.
Why would you need to sign an additional agreement now. Surely the Mortgage agreement at the time is the actual agreement.
my brother got one of these one page -almost computer generated- letters,
it was from an office in Tallaght where before all mortgage letters came from Belfast,
the manager and assistant manager of his Dublin south west branch are no longer at the branch ....
I wonder were there times that staff got great commisions for selling mortgages and then...when the iceberg tore a hole in things
the head office started to look with horror at what was on their plate...
it was from an office in Tallaght where before all mortgage letters came from Belfast,
the manager and assistant manager of his Dublin south west branch are no longer at the branch ....
I wonder were there times that staff got great commisions for selling mortgages and then...when the iceberg tore a hole in things
the head office started to look with horror at what was on their plate...
Ding Dong that's a very valid point about Data Protection.
I bet quite a few of those policies are indeed assigned only they don't seem to have the records at their side to back it up.
I'd imagine the other lenders are in the same boat. Remember a year or two back they were so in a rush to close on the endless stream of loans that they went easy on the rules so much so that they sometimes only required sight of the policy, some didn't even seek assignment and sometimes at local branch level, managers let the cheques issue without security.
If you have some negative equity, maxed income multiples, maxed term and now you discover you have unprotected loans wouldn't your book look especially bad? To me summersun, that is the horror on their plate.
I bet quite a few of those policies are indeed assigned only they don't seem to have the records at their side to back it up.
I'd imagine the other lenders are in the same boat. Remember a year or two back they were so in a rush to close on the endless stream of loans that they went easy on the rules so much so that they sometimes only required sight of the policy, some didn't even seek assignment and sometimes at local branch level, managers let the cheques issue without security.
If you have some negative equity, maxed income multiples, maxed term and now you discover you have unprotected loans wouldn't your book look especially bad? To me summersun, that is the horror on their plate.
'the horror, the horror, the horror.. J Conrad, (polish) the Heart of Darkness,
also used by accbank head office in Holland when they found that the supreme court was a bit like an Irish lisbon vote....keep going back until they give you an 'answer you cannot refuse' (apologies to the Author Prodi)
also used by accbank head office in Holland when they found that the supreme court was a bit like an Irish lisbon vote....keep going back until they give you an 'answer you cannot refuse' (apologies to the Author Prodi)
I too got this one page letter from NIB. I have both a residential and investment mortgage with them and the letter says "Re: Property located at...." It details the addresses of both properties. To be honest I was going to ignore the letter and wait and see what happens next. The bank should have these details from when the mortgages were initially taken out.
I wonder is it anything to do with NIB being worried that people are no longer paying the premiums on these policies and have allowed them to lapse or that the policies no longer have high enough cover? I know I recently reduced the rebuild value on my own home insurance as it was €450k rebuild cost on a 1600sq ft house which was crazy.
Something seems strange!
K-Man - I wouldn't sign that letter under any circumstances. I would definitely talk to someone in the NIB branch you dealt with previously.
I wonder is it anything to do with NIB being worried that people are no longer paying the premiums on these policies and have allowed them to lapse or that the policies no longer have high enough cover? I know I recently reduced the rebuild value on my own home insurance as it was €450k rebuild cost on a 1600sq ft house which was crazy.
Something seems strange!
K-Man - I wouldn't sign that letter under any circumstances. I would definitely talk to someone in the NIB branch you dealt with previously.
Sober Lark
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They seem happy to waste thousands of peoples time searching for information they already but for some reason they can't find.
Guys in NIB, come on, what disc did you lose?
Guys in NIB, come on, what disc did you lose?
G
Guest116
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I think they are trying to weed out those who took out "residential" mortgages and then rented out their house. Usually you would want to change your insurance as it would be void if it was for an owner occupied property initially but was now rented.
The house insurance would state that, then NIB would probably try to move you to an investment mortgage with a higer rate. Having said that there is nothing in the T&Cs of my mortgage about it.
<further edit> Actually I am wrong on the above. The T&Cs do say if the property is let out that is a condition that causes default and the bank can require full repayment of the mortgage outstanding. A bit harsh! But it also allows NIB to move you to an investment rate which is what they would do.
The house insurance would state that, then NIB would probably try to move you to an investment mortgage with a higer rate. Having said that there is nothing in the T&Cs of my mortgage about it.
<further edit> Actually I am wrong on the above. The T&Cs do say if the property is let out that is a condition that causes default and the bank can require full repayment of the mortgage outstanding. A bit harsh! But it also allows NIB to move you to an investment rate which is what they would do.
Complainer
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Beautiful.
I got the letter too, and was particularly surprised in relation to the life insurance, as this was arranged through NIB and they presumably got some nice commission from Irish Life for this. I wonder have they lost the commission money too? ;-)
I thought that the home insurance providers usually informed the lender that insurance was in place. Isn't there space on the insurance proposal for the lender's name and mortgage account number?
Had a look at home and I found the policy. It is assigned to the NIB, which means that the Bank are made aware of there are any changes to the policy.
The Bank have / had the original documment from the insurance company assigned to the bank.
The whole thing seems very slack to me.
Got a letter saying that they are investigating the data protection issues that I raised.
The Bank have / had the original documment from the insurance company assigned to the bank.
The whole thing seems very slack to me.
Got a letter saying that they are investigating the data protection issues that I raised.
Hi,
Just wondering if anyone heard anything further about these letters ?
I received a one page request last year in connection with house insurance and a second one page request in connection with life insurance. Both are in place and details were all given to the bank when we drew down the mortgage. I actually forgot about the letters and so never replied.
Last week I received a second request for the life insurance policy, they are updating their records etc. Perhaps the other one is also on the way.
Like other posters, when I know that they have this and countless other bits of information on us, I am reluctant to appease them without knowing why they can't find the info they already have.
R-
Just wondering if anyone heard anything further about these letters ?
I received a one page request last year in connection with house insurance and a second one page request in connection with life insurance. Both are in place and details were all given to the bank when we drew down the mortgage. I actually forgot about the letters and so never replied.
Last week I received a second request for the life insurance policy, they are updating their records etc. Perhaps the other one is also on the way.
Like other posters, when I know that they have this and countless other bits of information on us, I am reluctant to appease them without knowing why they can't find the info they already have.
R-