Legal fees - Probate

J

J.P.

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Hi,
I’m the executor of my aunt's will. My aunt, who was unmarried,passed recently and she has left her estate to her four nieces / nephews (myself being one of them) in her will. My aunts estate has a total value of €1.05M , this consists of an apartment with a market value of €350,000 (which will be sold when probate is granted) and the remainder of her estate is in bank accounts.

As I have never been through the process of probate, etc…... before and being somewhat overwhelmed by the whole process, I approached my own solicitor about doing the necessary work involved and they provided me with a fixed fee quote in a Section 68 letter of €15,000 + VAT (which includes all outlays) to do the following work -
  1. Process the grant of probate application
  2. Do the conveyancing work re. the sale of the apartment when probate is granted
  3. Do the Revenue CAT returns for the four beneficiaries of the will on distribution of the estate.
My preference is for my own solicitor to do this work, as I have always found them good & very professional - but my issue is that I have absolutely no idea if the fee quoted of €15,000 + VAT is a reasonable price or not for the scope of work outlined ? I want to be fair in all of my dealings as executor, but I also want to ensure that I’m being treated fairly in return. Your views re. the legal fees in question would be appreciated.

Regards,

JP
 
Shop around and get some quotes.

Have a look at the following thread about half way down to get an idea. When comparing fees, I generally look at the professional fees only - outlays will the same no matter who you go with, but some quotes might not include items you have to pay.

What Solicitor Should Charge For Uncomplicated Probate

Just wondering what a solicitor should charge for probate. Looking for a fixed fee, south Dublin or city centre. Its quite uncomplicated. House in joint names already, and accounts held by one parent need to be transferred to the other parent who is the sole beneficiary (1-3 accounts /...
www.askaboutmoney.com
 
Have you considered a personal application? It is not so onerous really, I've just completed the process on a similar sounding estate.
 
I think that's working out at 1.5% which is not dear I would imagine unless you want to do it yourself. Remember, your own solicitor knows the whole story of the case and understands fully the situation as well. There's a fair amount of work needing an experienced hand on this and you have it in what he's doing. I'd imagine you won't get it done much cheaper but might have your eyes opened by some of the quotes you may get. The devil you know and all that is appropriate in your case. I'd go with it, it's not that anyone has to put their hands in their pockets to pay for it so to speak.
 
Hi Seagull,

Yes, the fee includes doing the conveyancing work re. the sale of the property.
 
I think if it includes selling the property it is good value, my husband is doing this for his mother’s estate presently and it is somewhere about €5 - €7 K without selling the property so another approx €6 K for selling the property brings it to roughly €12K and you are in and around this as well. Shopping around will probably get you a more competitive quote so you could get a couple of grand off your quote with a bit of haggling. My husband had fair deal in there as well, not sure if this was your aunts case too so that might add a bit of complication.
 
J.P. said:
My preference is for my own solicitor to do this work, as I have always found them good & very professional - but my issue is that I have absolutely no idea if the fee quoted of €15,000 + VAT is a reasonable price or not for the scope of work outlined ?
Click to expand...
I went through something similar recently although I was not directly involved and could only push it so far. The family solicitor quoted nearly 24k for an estate of close to 2m, but the majority was a family farm. One benefactor - the deceased's wife, and nothing to sell either. I was astounded by this and felt it was a total ripoff.
I then went and got 5 quotes from different solicitors in the area, and they ranged from 6k to 50k, with the average being close to 12k.

I have to admit, I do not see how anyone can justify pricing of probate based on asset value, rather than work to be done. I will have to have a deal done with my own solicitor to make sure the probate price is agreed upfront, as I would not leave than experience to my next of kin when the time comes !
 
Hi gnf_ireland,

That's scandalous and in my opinion probably unethical but legal!

The €50k from a stranger and the family solicitor charging €24k for what should be a very simple job!
 
elacsaplau said:
The €50k from a stranger and the family solicitor charging €24k for what should be a very simple job!
Click to expand...
In your opinion. As with everything there can be complications or the job is not that straightforward. As always, people can choose to do it themselves but I am more than prepared to pay to make sure the job is done correctly by a professional.
 
Clamball said:
I think if it includes selling the property it is good value, my husband is doing this for his mother’s estate presently and it is somewhere about €5 - €7 K without selling the property so another approx €6 K for selling the property brings it to roughly €12K and you are in and around this as well. Shopping around will probably get you a more competitive quote so you could get a couple of grand off your quote with a bit of haggling. My husband had fair deal in there as well, not sure if this was your aunts case too so that might add a bit of complication.
Click to expand...
6 K for the conveyance is the highest I've heard of in a long time.
 
My mother worked in the estates department for a large accounting firm. They used to give the option of asset based or time based fees.
 
gnf_ireland said:
I went through something similar recently although I was not directly involved and could only push it so far. The family solicitor quoted nearly 24k for an estate of close to 2m, but the majority was a family farm. One benefactor - the deceased's wife, and nothing to sell either. I was astounded by this and felt it was a total ripoff.
I then went and got 5 quotes from different solicitors in the area, and they ranged from 6k to 50k, with the average being close to 12k.

I have to admit, I do not see how anyone can justify pricing of probate based on asset value, rather than work to be done. I will have to have a deal done with my own solicitor to make sure the probate price is agreed upfront, as I would not leave than experience to my next of kin when the time comes !
Click to expand...

The fee used to be based on a percentage of the estate. That was banned. But it doesn't stop solicitors actually basing their quotes on the size of the estate.

As regards your will. You should inform your executors that there is no need for them to use the solicitor who holds the will to do the probate as it would be impossible for dead you to inform them of the deal you had done with your solicitor. .
 
J.P. said:
Hi,
Your views re. the legal fees in question would be appreciated.
Click to expand...
If it's just one conveyance and collecting money from bank accounts it sounds simple enough so the fee sounds high to me. You need to shop around. If you are good with paperwork then you can do it yourself and hire a solicitor to do the conveyance. There are many threads on here of how posters managed it.
 
Bronte said:
If it's just one conveyance and collecting money from bank accounts it sounds simple enough so the fee sounds high to me. You need to shop around. If you are good with paperwork then you can do it yourself and hire a solicitor to do the conveyance.
Click to expand...

You don't actually need a solicitor for conveyancing either. And although I have always thought it foolish not to use one, a €6,000 fee might make me think twice.
 
cremeegg said:
You don't actually need a solicitor for conveyancing either. And although I have always thought it foolish not to use one, a €6,000 fee might make me think twice.
Click to expand...
I agree with you there, particularly if selling. But I wouldn't advise it. For 6K yes. I'd prefer to pay the fee and be done with it.
 
"You don't actually need a solicitor for conveyancing either. "

In 35 years in practice, I've never seen any lay person attempt to do their own conveyancing. For very good reason.

I wouldn't act for a purchaser trying to buy in those circumstances - I'd just end up doing the whole lot.

I'd be as reluctant to act for a vendor selling to a lay conveyancer purchaser- the file would end up on my desk for years as they kept coming back with queries from the PRAI.

And just to get back to the OP, the quote is on the high side for a small/family type firm but in the ballpark for any of the bigger firms.

Horses for courses.

mf
 
Bronte said:
The fee used to be based on a percentage of the estate. That was banned. But it doesn't stop solicitors actually basing their quotes on the size of the estate.
Click to expand...
Exactly - it does not stop them doing it - and I cannot see how the value of the estate has anything to do with the effort required to process the probate. The simple answer is the solicitors in this case are taking advantage of the person, just because the estate has a reasonable level of cash and because they are of the generation where solicitors are treated as people of esteem and privilege in the community they don't want to rock the boat. I have done all I can, including showing them the other quotes but they have agreed to proceed with the quote. Needless to say I have a lump bitten out of my tongue at this stage
 
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