Legal apprenticeship: any tips on trying to find a trainee solicitor job

Your argument in respect of 30k being paid to Law soc students just doesn't stand to reason. The bottom line is that a law soc student gets no more than 18k per annum after tax/prsi into his or her pocket. It may go some way to explaining why so many take on second jobs at bar work or waitressing. Furthermore, a lot of students are so desperate for apprenticeships that they are agreeing not to be paid during the course and to pay their own law soc fees, indenture registration fees etc.

As for why the fees are so high in the law soc, this is of little relevance to a student and doesn't alter the fact that the fees are prohibitively high, meaning many PPC students have to take out loans to fund their education. Regarding the teaching of trainee solicitors, while I would be of the opinion that the PPC1 remains at a high standard and is a good, intensive teaching course, I would argue that the PPC2 is of a poor standard to the extent that it is effectively a waste of over 4k. There is a huge amount of free time, topics are not considered in any depth and students are forced to pick subjects in areas of law which at that stage of their traineeship, they know they will likely never practice. Personally I think to scupper the PPC2 would be advantageous financially for both the law student and the training solicitor.
 
Firstly and genuinely good luck to everyone looking for an apprenticeship. I know they seem to be about as rare as hens teeth at the moment.

Sorry to be negative but has anyone considered that it may be just as difficult to get paid employment as a solicitor when you are clutching your parchment in a few years time.

I qualified many moons ago (early 90s) and saw friends work for a pittance post qualification just to get post qualification experience. Some worked for the recommended apprenticship rate for a year after qualifying,some for considerably less (and the recommended rate was no where near what its is today even taking into account inflation) and some worked for free and at least two of my pals didnt work for a year! The last 10 years have been very good to most solicitors including myself but the times are a changin BIG TIME.

The reality for many small to medium size firms at the moment is the last thing they can afford is an apprentice right now. Many are considering letting qualified experienced staff(solicitors and back up staff ) go at the moment as between PIAB and the lull in conveyancing and the neverending stream of newly qualified solictors starting up their own practices (because they cant get employment) things are getting very tough out there.

If you really want to be a solicitor then go for it as there are many positives and despite the constants negative press it is still a proud dignified and worthy profession to be a part of. But if you are just falling into it or you are doing it for the money or the prestige then do yourself a very large favour and seriously consider doing something else. The fact that you already have your degree or FE1s does not mean you have to become a solicitor. A background in law will stand you in good stead elsewhere.

In the next few years I believe that the competition for apprenticeships,jobs for solicitors and actual fee earning work will becomee even more intense and cutthroat than it is now. The press ,the competition authority and the plain people of ireland may have you believe that qualifying as a solicitor is a licence to print money:rolleyes: but it simply isnt true. You will work very hard in an ever more demanding environment and subject to ever more criticsm to earn your massive salary(if you are lucky).

So to those who really want it welcome but to those who are not sure or are just in it for the money believe me there must be an easier way to do it.
GOOD LUCK to all either way(and thanks to all for reading my little rant..I feel much better now:eek: )
 
This is slightly off topic but I would really appreciate anyone's opinion/advice. I am currently working as a trainee in a very reputable firm. I was delighted to get contract in first place but now I really hate it. I have been there quite a few months but the situation is not getting any better. It's just not my kind of office. It's very profit orientated, clients come and go like they are on some conveyor belt and many of the solicitors and trainess alike are extremely rude to clients and each other and this is not the kind of experience I wanted.

I am now giving serious consideration to sending out cvs to smaller firms. I have worked in a small firm before and really enjoyed it. It was a more intimate environment and had a much greater client focus.

I have no problem with my actual work per se. I'm not delusional about what a training contract entails, I have no problem with menial or monontonous work, its just the people I work with. I would happily pay my own fees in Blackhall Plce, if it means that I'm happy where I work.

My problem is, if I do suceed in getting a contract elsewhere, am I going to sabotage my own career by leaving a very reputable office which would give me great exposure? Which do I choose, status or happiness?
 
While obvioulsly the correct answer is happiness I think you know it's not really that straightforward or you wouldn't be so confused. The reality is that you may have difficulty securing another apprenticeship and if you are successful there is no guarantee that a smaller firm would be any "friendlier". How far through your apprenticeship are you? Have you done the PPC-1? It depends on how long you have left to serve in your apprenticeship really. Personally I would toughen it out and try not to let people and personalities get to me if you don't mind the work itself.
 
I would recommend that you stay where you are. Already, apart from what you may have learned on the legal side ,you are gaining a huge insight as to your own preferences, also how you believe people should behave towards clients etc.. Stick it out, it will look good on your CV and the apprenticeship will be over soon.You will then have the option to move to similar sized firms or smaller.
Also chances are that you will move around in the firm and will come across some very nice prople there too( how many different departments have you worked in so far in the firm).I work in a small firm but some of the most pleasant and professional solicitors I know work in the very big firms and equally I have come across some total prats in two person firms. The training of watching every penny and knowing how to charge (and also when not to )will be invaluable if you ever decide to set up your own practice. So stick it out,its not forever and you will not regret doing it.
 
Madangan said:
Firstly and genuinely good luck to everyone looking for an apprenticeship. I know they seem to be about as rare as hens teeth at the moment.

Sorry to be negative but has anyone considered that it may be just as difficult to get paid employment as a solicitor when you are clutching your parchment in a few years time.

I qualified many moons ago (early 90s) and saw friends work for a pittance post qualification just to get post qualification experience. Some worked for the recommended apprenticship rate for a year after qualifying,some for considerably less (and the recommended rate was no where near what its is today even taking into account inflation) and some worked for free and at least two of my pals didnt work for a year! The last 10 years have been very good to most solicitors including myself but the times are a changin BIG TIME.

The reality for many small to medium size firms at the moment is the last thing they can afford is an apprentice right now. Many are considering letting qualified experienced staff(solicitors and back up staff ) go at the moment as between PIAB and the lull in conveyancing and the neverending stream of newly qualified solictors starting up their own practices (because they cant get employment) things are getting very tough out there.

If you really want to be a solicitor then go for it as there are many positives and despite the constants negative press it is still a proud dignified and worthy profession to be a part of. But if you are just falling into it or you are doing it for the money or the prestige then do yourself a very large favour and seriously consider doing something else. The fact that you already have your degree or FE1s does not mean you have to become a solicitor. A background in law will stand you in good stead elsewhere.

In the next few years I believe that the competition for apprenticeships,jobs for solicitors and actual fee earning work will becomee even more intense and cutthroat than it is now. The press ,the competition authority and the plain people of ireland may have you believe that qualifying as a solicitor is a licence to print money:rolleyes: but it simply isnt true. You will work very hard in an ever more demanding environment and subject to ever more criticsm to earn your massive salary(if you are lucky).

So to those who really want it welcome but to those who are not sure or are just in it for the money believe me there must be an easier way to do it.
GOOD LUCK to all either way(and thanks to all for reading my little rant..I feel much better now:eek: )
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Many thanks for this. I am one of those with the law experience, the FE-1s and the education but I have decided to stop the pursuit of an apprenticeship. The reasons you outline above are a lot to do with it. So far I think it has been the best decision I have made.
 
Hi, has anyone any feedback on the FE-1 Direct Seminar given in UL. I know that there is a lot of prep work before attending it but is it possible to cover everything necessary in a one day course per exam?
 
Hey aokeefe
Western Management Centre iN Galway is quite good on one day exam prep for the FE-1'S, especially Caitriona's or Catherine's courses (sorry her exact name fails me at the moment but there are only two lecturers). I had her as a tutor in NUIG and then decided to attend the Tort Revision Course - she distilled the course to the bare necessities for the exam and was absolutuely brilliant - will be going back to her in August for Company and Constitutional. The number of the centre is on the Law Soc webpage - hope that is of some help.

P.S. You do need to do a lot of work prior to attendance!
 
Griffith is the best revision course. Their tips are spot on & you get up to date course notes. It is worth the extra time & money.

I also did the western mgt course in galway but there is no comparison with griffith. It is only a quick summary of the subject and it did not help me pass so i wouldn't reccomend.
 
Re: Legal Apprenticeship?

I have got all my FE1s and the Irish exam and am employed in the Courts Service temporarily. Im going to begin applying for apprenticeships this year. My LLM was in International Human Rights Law and I am not sure whether this will be a turn off for firms looking at my CV. The advice given is generally to stick to what youre interested in and I am interested in human rights and development, however I wouldnt expect it to be a part of my work as a solicitor in Ireland. There arent very many, if any, firms in Ireland that specialise in human rights work. Can anyone give me any advice as to what extent my LLM will be advantageous/disadvantageous to my search for an apprenticeship? Also should I put down any overseas volunteering/travel on my CV or is this irrelevant?
 
Defintely fit your travel & volunteering experience into your CV, maybe under interests or somewhere like that.

An LLM will only enhance your CV, but I would be particular in your interviews that you understand that any given firm wont work in it regularly.
 
Is there any particular that needs to be included in a CV for trainee positions that isnt included on others/any specifications expected by firms when viewing a CV? How much of my previous employment is relevant, only legal work experience/legal jobs or are other jobs relevant too, such as general office jobs?
Also, does anyone know how long it takes to hear back from firms? Im planning on sending out CVs in September/October and, if successful, to do the PPC1 in 2008. If, as someone said above, the "topten" firms require people to start up to a year beforehand, do I need to be prepared to drop all and go if a position arises? I am in the process of arranging travel abroad early next year for up to eight weeks.
Thanks for your help, I have so many questions, wish Id known about this site a year ago!
 
What you need to do is try and get onto all the top ten's websites and check out their recruitment plans. Most of them recruit at least one if not two years in advance, with most interviews in late Dec early Jan so you should be ok with travel plans after that.

If you are looking at the medium or smaller firms, they are looking moreso for immediate starts, so you would have to be ready to go if you are looking this route.
 
This is the part I dont fully understand, dont you have to have done the PPC1 before you can begin a training contract? If the course runs once a year, wouldnt I have to wait a year before I start with a firm anyway?
 
Trafford said:
Many thanks for this. I am one of those with the law experience, the FE-1s and the education but I have decided to stop the pursuit of an apprenticeship. The reasons you outline above are a lot to do with it. So far I think it has been the best decision I have made.
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Can I ask what job you decided to opt for instead?
 
quick question - they say at career advice seminars etc to target fims who deal with an area of law you are interested in and to specify this interest in your cover letter thereby showing that you've chosen the firm carefully and are informed about the areas in which they practice...can anyone looking for a traineeship really afford to be fussy? Surely its more a case of beggars cant be choosers..?
 
LB25 said:
quick question - they say at career advice seminars etc to target fims who deal with an area of law you are interested in and to specify this interest in your cover letter thereby showing that you've chosen the firm carefully and are informed about the areas in which they practice...can anyone looking for a traineeship really afford to be fussy? Surely its more a case of beggars cant be choosers..?
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This is absolutely the case at the moment. however there's no harm in trying to get into a firm that covers areas you are interested in.
 
I think it is more relevant when applying to firms that you find out what areas they practice in. I work in quite a specialised firm and we receive so many cvs from people who have no idea what kind of law we practice. These cvs are never considered. However, those people who do identify our practice areas and match them to their own cv will always get a second look! Even to look in the special pages some firms will advertise practice areas, criminal firms will also advertise an after hours paging number with their listing or look on the courts website in the legal diary for you area and you will see what firms regularly appear in civil, family or criminal cases etc. It's a good way to make your cover letter stand out and show (or pretend to) a firm that you are particularly interested in working in that firm and that you are not just sending out the same cv and cover letter to every firm.
 
camarilla said:
Can I ask what job you decided to opt for instead?
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I just remained in my current job, which is legal executive. I do the work of a solicitor but alas not the same salary. If an opportunity to train appears in the next 5 years I can still pursue it. I might look again now in the autumn, but I have realised it is not the be all and end all.
 
Is it better to phone firms first to find out if they are taking on trainees or just to send cvs out anyway?
 
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