Legal apprenticeship: any tips on trying to find a trainee solicitor job

I rang the Law Society last week and they said that PPC1 would be starting mid Sept, didn't have an exact date though. There is only one course running this year and there is one in Cork!
 
Does anyone have any thoughts on starting the tax exams, or think this would help in securing an apprenticeship. A considerable amount of Solicitors seem to be doing them in recent years....Or would they really be of much use if you were going to end up working in a small to medium firm?

Also since they come in 3 parts would it just add to stress having to study for Parts 2 and 3 straight after qualifying as a Solicitor?

Have been trying to secure a training contract for 2 years to no avail (currently working as a Legal Secretary) and would prefer to do something practical like tax exams as opposed to a Masters.

Any suggestions??
 
It does sound like a good idea to me. I have been turned down for apprenticeships despite having 5 years legal exec experience, because I don't have a specialised qualification in specific areas of law. It seems a bit harsh seeing as we're supposed to be trainees and expected to be blank canvasses ready to learn. That is what you're up against though, people who have further qualifications than the degree and the FE-1s.
 
The tax exams are something to consider , especially if you have exemptions from undergrad ie of you tax or accountancy subjects.

Speaking to someone who had completed them, they seem tough. Are you genuinely interested in tax and tax planning as a career ? . As a means to securing an apprenticeship . it could work but be careful you are not pidgeon holed by it before you go in somewhere, and marked as the 'tax trainee'. Just something to consider before committing to lots of more hard work and big fees.
 
Hi, I have been seriously thinking about starting on the road to pursuing a legal apprentiship. I have a BSc and have been working with this in an office where I encounter a lot of legal issues which has led to my increased interest in law. Am I dreaming? Would I ever find an apprentiship with this kind of background?
 
Hi aokeeffe,
Well firstly have you sat the FE-1 exams? IMO it would be nigh impossible to secure an apprenticeship if you do not have a background in law and have not passed the FE-1s.
If you have already passed the FE-1's and are looking for an apprenticeship then its as much about being in the right place at the right time as it is about previous experience and qualifications.
 
I know a couple of scientists who applied to the 'big five' in Dublin without having sat even one FE-1. Both were snapped up (depending on completion of the FE-1s obviously).

If you have a science degree from a leading university, and have at least a 2.1 hons degree, you'll have as good a chance as anyone at landing a traineeship.
 
Hi that is great to hear. Haven't done FE1's yet but have looked into it. Just wanted some feedback before I started the long rd! Ideally would like to do prep course in Munster so was hopin to do the Nov - Feb in Cork. Any recommendations on which course is best?
 
Hello I'm new to this site and was looking for some advice on gaining legal experience with a view to securing an apprenticeship. To begin, I'm a recent B.A. and LLB. grad of NUIG and achieved a 2H1 grade in both.I have spent the past year sitting the FE-1's exams and have a remaining two to pass. I am thus now attempting to embark on the difficult road of securing an apprenticeship. In terms of experience, I have done the usual summer internship in a mid size commercial firm and currently, work in an organisation that provides IR/HR advice i.e. an employment law arena albeit in an administrative capacity. I feel I am now stuck in the catch 22 scenario i.e. prosects of securing apprenticeship greatly increase if i have relevant work experience, but its nigh impossible to get that experience without experience.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
I'm not sure that getting just any kind of experience is of any use to you. I have passed 7 Fe 1's but failed one which I'm repeating September. I went to the Law Society Seminar and they said to get any kind of experience so I did. It was mostly basic filing and putting together briefs,with a bit of audio typing.I got 4 weeks out of it, but the principal solicitor hardly gave me the time of day. You'd want to watch also that you don't let your existing career go down the swanny, if its one outside law. Because it's so hard to get a legal apprenticeship,I'm looking at jobs in my own industry again(have a BE in Civil Engineering) but my motivation is probably being questioned because I did law exams and worked for a solicitor. Also, would you have to be pretty exceptional to get a legal apprenticeship coming from a non law background? I have an average enough degree, and nothing exceptional after that. I think I have more of an aptitude for law though and would do well in it,but am I tainted by not performing well in a career that I probably wasn't suited to?
 
hi there. i am new to this thread too. i am in a similar position also. I have passed all fe-1s since last nov & have been looking for an apprenticeship since beginning of 2006 with no luck. I am on the verge of giving up & am definetely looking into my other options. I was wondering does anyone know what other options are open to me? I have a business degree as well as a law degree & currently work in the customer service area of a financial organisation. I was thinking about applying to the banks etc. as they may have more options than my current organisation. I'm situated in the west & don't want to move if poss.What do people do if they don't get apprenticeships or do you just keep trying?
I am at the stage where I just want a decent job.
 
sara:) said:
hi there. i am new to this thread too. i am in a similar position also. I have passed all fe-1s since last nov & have been looking for an apprenticeship since beginning of 2006 with no luck. I am on the verge of giving up & am definetely looking into my other options. I was wondering does anyone know what other options are open to me? I have a business degree as well as a law degree & currently work in the customer service area of a financial organisation. I was thinking about applying to the banks etc. as they may have more options than my current organisation. I'm situated in the west & don't want to move if poss.What do people do if they don't get apprenticeships or do you just keep trying?
I am at the stage where I just want a decent job.
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Bazoo said:
An apprenticeship is about as far from a decent job as you can get. You are truly at the bottom of the food chain and reminded of it on a daily basis, in particular by those who have no concept of what it means to be educated (my unfortunate experience in an office where the receptionists and some secretaries had ridiculous notions about themselves). The money is awful, you're treated like dirt, a lot (not all) of the work is monotonous and sometimes soul-destroying. I'm not sure I'd go through it again given the option. It's baffling why so many people want to become solicitors.
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Nothing like instilling a bit of confidence in the world weary on this thread!!

Sara, I am like you and have pretty much given up now, and it was the best thing I could have done. I have wanted a career in law since I was in primary school. I have been working as a para-legal for 5 years now, and depsite having the FE-1s I have had no joy with an apprencticeship. I am now looking to change career completely, and since making that descision it is like all the pressure has been lifted. It was hard to give up on my dreams, but I have had a good few years in the profession so far so can't complain. Onwards and upwards for me!
 
That's a shame Trafford. What are you considering changing to? If it's any consolation I regret not having opted for primary school teaching. It's not viable for me to pursue it at this stage. Best of luck with your decision.
 
Bazoo said:
That's a shame Trafford. What are you considering changing to? If it's any consolation I regret not having opted for primary school teaching. It's not viable for me to pursue it at this stage. Best of luck with your decision.
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My objective is to change to something that, above all, will genuinely interest me. I am very interested in the arts and literature, and have been exploring the option of opening a gallery or doing an arts admin post grad perhaps. I have an interview for a librarian position coming up too which I am very excited about.
 
Hey Trafford, Im sorry to hear that the law route didnt work out for you and wish you all the best in your new career. If you don't mind me asking how exactly did you get into paralegal work.
 
I am dismayed by the negative experiences of some of the contributors here. While I cannot refute the various assertions made, I do think some small contribution is called for to balance the debate a little:

"You are truly at the bottom of the food chain and reminded of it on a daily basis, in particular by those who have no concept of what it means to be educated"

I remember being at the bottom of the food chain when I was an apprentice; It didn't seem that bad; somebody has to be at the bottom of the office pecking order; at least the apprentice has the comfort that his\her status is temporary. I can't imagine that it would be at all helpful to point out to other office staff that they have no concept of what it means to be educated. If as an apprentice my attitude had been informed by such an outlook, I imagine this would have shown, and would not have helped me.

"The money is awful"

It's not great; but it's not that terribly bad. For the employer, when you take account of time actually worked, the cost of a trainee equates to paying someone circa. €30k per annum. Not a fortune, but you can see why many solicitors would prefer to hire an experienced secretary or legal executive.

"you're treated like dirt" Not true in many offices. Certainly not true in mine. I believe (and certainly hope) that it is only true in a small minority.

"a lot (not all) of the work is monotonous and sometimes soul-destroying." Undoubtedly true. This is the nature of a lot of legal work. It's certainly not for everybody.
 
MOB said:
I am dismayed by the negative experiences of some of the contributors here. While I cannot refute the various assertions made, I do think some small contribution is called for to balance the debate a little:

"You are truly at the bottom of the food chain and reminded of it on a daily basis, in particular by those who have no concept of what it means to be educated"

I remember being at the bottom of the food chain when I was an apprentice; It didn't seem that bad; somebody has to be at the bottom of the office pecking order; at least the apprentice has the comfort that his\her status is temporary. I can't imagine that it would be at all helpful to point out to other office staff that they have no concept of what it means to be educated. If as an apprentice my attitude had been informed by such an outlook, I imagine this would have shown, and would not have helped me.

"The money is awful"

It's not great; but it's not that terribly bad. For the employer, when you take account of time actually worked, the cost of a trainee equates to paying someone circa. €30k per annum. Not a fortune, but you can see why many solicitors would prefer to hire an experienced secretary or legal executive.
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Where did I say that I pointed out to office staff that they have no concept of what it means to be educated? This is not something I pointed out to anyone. It was something of which I was aware in my own office. Though it was certainly not the case with the majority of secretaries, there were several oldies there who were determined to assert their 'status' at regular intervals. And this was not an 'attitude which informed my outlook', it was part and parcel of working where I did and from reports from colleagues, is not an uncommon phenomenon. Of course, it has advantages too in that new trainees coming into an office who are know-it-alls (not me!) are put in their place pretty quickly.

With regards to pay, I'm not sure what you mean by For the employer, when you take account of time actually worked, the cost of a trainee equates to paying someone circa. €30k per annum.
The salary for a trainee solicitor post PPC1 remains in or about 20k gross a year. Some are paid minimum wage and get their fees paid because their employer can claim back 47% of fees paid. Pittance by any standards. And on the subject of fees, the Law Society Courses at a current total of almost 11k must be one of the most if not the most expensive professional course fees in the country.

I commented simply give an awareness to those considering the FE1 route that passing the law soc entrance exams (an arduous feat in itself) is just the beginning of a long road to qualification which may not turn out to be what they expected. With the numbers qualifying now, a job isn't guaranteed at the end and it's taking newly qualified solicitors longer to find jobs. From discussions with colleagues, I know I'm not alone in my opinions.
 
"I'm not sure what you mean by For the employer, when you take account of time actually worked, the cost of a trainee equates to paying someone circa. €30k per annum. "

What I meant is that you pay an apprentice whether they are in the office or off at the Law Society. If you take the cost of an apprentice over the course of the apprenticeship and then apply it to the time that they are actually in the office, I think I worked it out at broadly the equivalent of €30k per annum for time actually spent working in the office.

Come to think of it, I think I might have factored in the Law Society fees to this calculation (which I think most larger offices pay - I pay them but subject to reimbursement if trainee leaves other than at my request or through force majeure before end of training period; I think this is a fair compromise).

"And on the subject of fees, the Law Society Courses at a current total of almost 11k must be one of the most if not the most expensive professional course fees in the country."

This is because the course is completely unsubsidised by the State. Law students are among the least burdensome on state coffers (medicine I think is the most burdensome, though that is probably fair enough given the training environment which must be provided for them). The Competition Authority have suggested that the Law Society training course be open to being provided by third parties. I doubt that this would bring down costs while maintaining the quality of the course (there are literally scores of professional lecturer and tutor contributors to each course)
 
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