League of Ireland Football - Why don't you attend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by csirl http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=696428#post696428
Apparently the top clubs in LOI pay their players c.100-150k per annum. This equates to 200-250k per annum when you take into account that the income is tax free.


No it's not!
Click to expand...

It is tax free - professional sports people in Ireland are allowed to reclaim the tax on their salaries for up to 10 years. LOI soccer players are the biggest beneficiaries of this rule.

Ok I concede I may have got the maths wrong - more like 100-150k equates to 150-210k, but still very high wages.
 
A mate goes to LOI matches regularly - the one refreshing aspect of the game, he says, is the general enthusiasm on the field and the relative lack of divers when compared with the premiership.
 
Caveat said:
A mate goes to LOI matches regularly - the one refreshing aspect of the game, he says, is the general enthusiasm on the field and the relative lack of divers when compared with the premiership.
Click to expand...

You sure its not Gaelic Football he was comparing with!
 
Last edited:
Its not just soccer that struggles for punters through the gates. Its the same with every sport. As Irish people we love telling ourselves that we are the best supporters in the world but only when it suits us. Look at GAA. How many Championship games this year were sell outs? Alot of the provincial games held in provincial venues weren't close to being sold out so people can't blame the cost of travelling to Croke Park. Its not exactly a struggle to get a ticket to a Munster Magners league game either. Connaught rugby supporters marched in Dublin to save their team and yet if the half the amount of people who marched turned up to watch them, there wouldn't be a problem.

If teams are looking for a template to copy on how to attract crowds, I would suggest they look at Leinster Rugby. I know they get alot of stick but they have gone from getting no-one through the door in Donnybrook to having close to full houses on freezing winter evenings. They turned it into a social occasion and have used clever marketing to sell their product. I have 4 friends who had no interest in rugby up to two years ago but are now season ticket holders. They still know nothing about the rugby though!
 
are we suffering from proximity to uk, with any above average irish player aspiring to playing in either scotland or english league. question..would irish players settle for a chance in say the 1st. or even 2nd. division in england against a premier league spot here..more sure of income, better chance of being spotted, better buzz etc..because of this talent drain i personally find the quality of the game poor here. it is weird to say that i have been at more games in manchester and london than i have in terryland in galway where i live, its a pity....oh and heres a controversial one for ya..imagine (please dont hurt me) if hurling and gaelic football didnt exist...how good would soccer be then both club and country, how better would the olympic team be, imagine our rugby team then...we are almost unique in one way that the vast majority of our sports people play sport hardly known outside the country...so internationally we probably should be quite proud..probably
 
Last edited:
Sunny said:
If teams are looking for a template to copy on how to attract crowds, I would suggest they look at Leinster Rugby. I know they get alot of stick but they have gone from getting no-one through the door in Donnybrook to having close to full houses on freezing winter evenings. They turned it into a social occasion and have used clever marketing to sell their product. I have 4 friends who had no interest in rugby up to two years ago but are now season ticket holders. They still know nothing about the rugby though!
Click to expand...

Imagine what it would be like if they ever won anything of worth :D.

I do think rugby is different to soccer as most national players play for home teams.
 
csirl said:
It is tax free - professional sports people in Ireland are allowed to reclaim the tax on their salaries for up to 10 years. LOI soccer players are the biggest beneficiaries of this rule.
Click to expand...
Some eL players will be able to avail of this but not all. Not all eL players are full time professionals for a start. To say that eL player wages are tax free is simply wrong. Players must pay their tax on an ongoing basis as normal. Some of them may eventually qualify for a tax refund under the scheme mentioned above.
 
DavyJones said:
I do think rugby is different to soccer as most national players play for home teams.
Click to expand...

Good point. Maybe there is a lesson there. Instead of calling on players playing below the Championship in England or not playing at all in some cases, domestic based players should be used. It would increase the profile of the domestic game if nothing else.
 
Sunny said:
Good point. Maybe there is a lesson there. Instead of calling on players playing below the Championship in England or not playing at all in some cases, domestic based players should be used. It would increase the profile of the domestic game if nothing else.
Click to expand...

The other difference is look at how well the home teams have done in rugby, most notably munster. Its difficult to take a uniform approach to sports. Just look at soccer in the most basic form here, junior. In Tipp and clare where I played pitches were and still are fields hired from farmers generally not very suitable for games, little or no changing facilities and very little back up from the county boards. i remember us getting fined for not having rope erected around the perimiter of the pitch (to hold back the crowds). Things like that aren't very progressive and don't help clubs stay going or get off the ground. I think a good junior league structure would filter through to better support for the LoI.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by csirl http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=696441#post696441
It is tax free - professional sports people in Ireland are allowed to reclaim the tax on their salaries for up to 10 years. LOI soccer players are the biggest beneficiaries of this rule.

Some eL players will be able to avail of this but not all. Not all eL players are full time professionals for a start. To say that eL player wages are tax free is simply wrong. Players must pay their tax on an ongoing basis as normal. Some of them may eventually qualify for a tax refund under the scheme mentioned above.
Click to expand...

ALL LOI players, including part-timers, can claim the refund of their tax. The only way wages would not be tax free is if the player plays more than 10 seasons. And in such cases, tax refund covers the 10 years in which the player received the highest salary. Like most sports, only a small minority of players would spend more than 10 years in the Eircom League. Time spent playing professionally in other countries does not count towards the 10 years - only time playing in Eircom League.

The impact of this should not be underestimated - up to 41% of gross salary refunded - gives LOI clubs a huge advantage over similar sized clubs in other countries when signing players.
 
I used to always go but stopped a few years back. The year after Waterford were beaten in the Cup Final. We had a great team, Daryl Murphy, Rennie, Frosty etc. I went to the first match of the season and prices had gone from 10 euro to 15 to sit in the stand.
A bit OTT and crowds went from 2000 @ 10 euro to 200 @ 15. Ever since then WUFC has gone from bad to worse.
 
I used to always go but stopped a few years back. The year after Waterford were beaten in the Cup Final. We had a great team, Daryl Murphy, Rennie, Frosty etc. I went to the first match of the season and prices had gone from 10 euro to 15 to sit in the stand.
A bit OTT and crowds went from 2000 @ 10 euro to 200 @ 15. Ever since then WUFC has gone from bad to worse.
Click to expand...

Very good point - teams can be short sighted when it comes to gate prices.

While reducing the price will reduce the take at the turnstyles, this can be more than compensated by with increased sales of programmes, merchandise, food etc. and increased advertising revenue from sponsors.
 
This is something I've always felt strongly about.

Some very good points have already been made, re pricing, alternative sports etc. But to me, the biggest hurdle is Irish soccer fans generally looking for instant success. There seems to be no kudos in telling your mates on a Monday morning about how good/bad/indifferent your favourite Irish team were, it's all about how you flew to Manchester or London to watch the big boys (or more likely, watched them on Sky Sports).

Surely at least half a dozen clubs here could attract crowds of 20K + for their home matches? And if you could offer half-decent extras like food & drink, programmes etc, that would be a very respectable income. 2 to 3 years of that level of income could see Irish clubs buying in a decent quality of player, 4 to 5 years could see at least a decent UEFA Cup run....maybe even qualification to the Champions League!
Yes, it really could happen. If Celtic & Rangers can generate that level of income, attract quality(ish) players & compete on te European stage, I really can't see how Ireland couldn't grow at least 1 club of a similar standing.
The main barrier I can see to this is impatience for the glory nights from the supporters. But I really don't think it would take too long before some of the really big clubs were coming here to play on a regular basis. It could have been Bohs making Liverpool struggle last night, and soccer fans from all over the island would have wanted to be there.

I think there's probably an issue too, in that a lot of the population have relocated elsewhere in Ireland for work reasons. They can still go & see their county at Croker once a year (well, some of them!) but they'll be damned if they'll put their hand in their pockets to support a soccer team from Dublin/Galway/Cork/wherever they call home now. And God forbid you might follow a team not from your home town whether you still live there or not. The Old Firm in Scotland have thrived because most of the country will get behind one of them, even if the fans may have a soft spot for their local team too.
Money will bring success, support Irish football!
 
A few years ago or more, my brother persuaded me to join him at a Shelbourne V Derry FAI Cup semi-final in Tolka Park.

The match ended 0-0 and there were a total of 3 corners in the game.

Never again
 
As a season ticket holder for an EL club, I know where the OP is coming from.

I love watching live football, and I really enjoy the social side of attending your local team for a home game.

I will admit that sometimes the football is poor, but it can also be very good. I am realistic and know that I will see better skill levels from the likes of Arsenal, Utd, Real Madrid, Barca, Milan, Munich etc, but hey these guys are on £50k - £130K PER WEEK.

And believe me, so many of the English Premiership games now bore me senseless (you see I don't believe the Sky hype when they say that every game is great, especially when its rubbish). If you watch football a lot (be it Eircom League, Serie A, EPL, La Liga etc) then the proportion of good good/excellent games to the number shown is very low. I have watched so many awful Liverpool v Man Utd or Chelsea v Liverpool games that I never get excited any more.

I do have a lot of friends who would ask me "why do you go watch that rubbish" - but thats only their opinion and I have seen some fantastic games over recent years in the EL. And its so sad to see local bars packed to bursting point when Liverpool play Man Utd, and the passion that these fans have for their football, well English football anyway. And they then HATE England so much its almost laughable.

To finish on, I think the problem we have here is Ireland is our love of English/Scottish football. It is so ingrained in our culture now its hard to shift. It will be handed down from father to sons and it will continue. Plus our football is not seen as sexy. The players are obviously not as good but they are paid so much less than the competition. And I would agree that are facilities are not good, and people these days are very discerning and will not go and sit/stand in the rain. They expect the best for their money.
 
There's a number of problems with the LOI and people's attitudes to it and I honestly don't know how some of them are ever going to be addressed.

The LOI clubs & the FAI can do their bit by investing in facilites (stadia / training facilities / youth set ups) etc and by marketing the product a lot better (simple things like making sure the TV gantry faces the stand that is full rather than the one that is empty) and by involving local communities a lot more and identifying with their communties a lot more, something which was sadly lacking until recently. It should be a stated goal of the FAI that all u21 international players ply their trade in Ireland. It's embarassing that even our u17s are made up of foreign based players.

As for the Irish "sporting" public.... I honestly don't know if any of the above would make a blind bit of difference. A number of generations have been completly lost to LOI football and there's probably no getting them back. The tired old "football's rubbish/ how can you watch that sh*te" cliche will always be thrown out by them no matter what. And guess what, I agree that compared to the standard in the Premiership the standard would not be as high. It's obvious that it couldn't be. But being a football fan is not about deciding to follow Utd becuase they're good, it's about identity and passion and pride. That's why they're called MANCHESTER utd or Liverpool or whatever. I'm not from Manchester or Turin or Madrid, I'm from Dublin so my football club is from my town in my country and while we might never win the European Cup, at least when we do play in Europe we'll be representing my town and my country and most of all MY CLUB. I won't have native Mancunians/Scousers/Cockneys making snide remarks about Paddy blow ins (and they do...read their fanzines/message boards).

The LOI needs to be revitalised and the recent (and no doubt there's more to come) upheavals in club finances might be the wake up call to clubs and players to sort their acts out as regards wages and general spending. That's what I hope anyway and an All Ireland League a few years down the road could be a real shot in the arm too.

But depressing things like Cork filling Turners Cross last year for the visit if Sunderland and only adding a couple of hundred to their gate when the news broke of their examinership makes me wonder what's the point.
 
Sunny said:
Its not just soccer that struggles for punters through the gates. Its the same with every sport. As Irish people we love telling ourselves that we are the best supporters in the world but only when it suits us. Look at GAA. How many Championship games this year were sell outs? Alot of the provincial games held in provincial venues weren't close to being sold out so people can't blame the cost of travelling to Croke Park. Its not exactly a struggle to get a ticket to a Munster Magners league game either.
Click to expand...

I think you're being unduly negative. 20,000 would be a pretty standard attendance at most meaningful provincial championship games this year (apart from finals that attract much more). In many cases, this represents a substantial share of the total population (and in Ulster the GAA population, as it is delicately termed) within the competing counties.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top