Lawyer messed up or did he?

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FillSpectre

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Lawyer messed up or did he?
Myself and my wife bought or house 2-3 years ago and we weren't very happy with the solicitor we used. First off he was simply rude,arrogant and lazy straight off but that is just bad customer service I guess.

He did have two issue which suggest to me that he should be pulled up on.

1)After we signed everything and had our last hause sold too all should have been fine. After a month we noticed the mortgage we had on the first house had not been paid off! They somehow "foregot" to pay the mortgage company. I got an appology and it was sorted out and a way of renumeration I was informed that one of the letters I had to ask to be sent would have cost €150 so he wasn't charging me. THat was meant to make it all better and my wife talked me out about making a full complaint

2) Yesterday I arrived home to find a letter and cheque from the solicitor. Apparently he has now registered the deeds (i know there is a lot of time for them to do this). THe cheque was the amount of cash "left over" from the process. €550!

I am really suspicious now that he has done something well dodgy. Is this normal? THe wife says we should just be happy with the money but I really quite worried and quite angry about it. I am normally somebody who says try to understand the other position and then decide so an explanation with how he could be paying me money back so late happens is what I am looking for
 
The solicitor must have overestimated the outlay on your transaction. This is easy to do particularly with new houses because the land registry fees are determined by the price in the transfer, this can be just the site value or the value of the whole house, it can be impossible to tell at the beginning of the transaction. The land registry fees on a new house are much larger than those on a new apartment. An inexperienced solicitor might bill the house charges on an apartment. So there are possibilities for error. Money billed as outlay must be returned to the client if not used. It looks like your transaction is now fully complete with the deeds gone off to the bank and the solicitor is closing his file. He has to zero your account and must return un used outlay. 2 -3 years is a fairly long time but sometimes registrations take a long time. I wouldn't assume a problem, he did return the money. But give him a call if you're worried
 
It was second hand house but you are saying this is normal?

It is the combined mistake that worries me and I really don't want to talk to him becasue he is an ass to say the least.
 
If you are not happy with any aspect of the service rendered then you should put your complaints in writing to the solicitor in question in the first instance. If you don't get a satisfactory response then you can consider escalating matters - e.g. to the Law Society or whatever.
 
On a second hand house it is unusual, whoever prepared your bill overbilled you for some portion of outlay, maybe they billed you land registry fees on a registry of deeds title? Maybe they miscalculated the stamp duty. Its fairly usual for bills to be out 20 - 25 euro on the outlay ( + or -). Most of the outlay is expended after the sale closes but the bill has to be paid before, the more experienced the solicitor, usually, the more accurate the outlay. If this solicitor has given you back the money it at least shows he is honest, organised and playing by the rules, solicitors are not supposed to keep unused outlay over a certain (v. small) amount. As clubman pointed out, if you are unhappy ask for an explaination, send a letter or email if you don't want to talk to the solicitor.
 
My solicitor "forgot" to pay off a £15'000 bridging loan for 17 months and then refused to pay the interest. It only came to light when the bank called me asking when I was going to pay off my loan, to which I replied, "What loan?".
 
Purple said:
My solicitor "forgot" to pay off a £15'000 bridging loan for 17 months and then refused to pay the interest. It only came to light when the bank called me asking when I was going to pay off my loan, to which I replied, "What loan?".
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I am supposing that you did not allow them to get away with this.
 
Taking it that he did mess up what are the effects of reporting him would actually have?
I really disliked his customer service and considering he got what appears to be two major things wrong I think it should be noted with the governing body or self regulating body.
 
FillSpectre said:
Taking it that he did mess up what are the effects of reporting him would actually have?
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None. Nor should there be. Nobody is at a loss in this situation. The Law Society have far bigger issues to deal with in relation to protection of clients money held by their member firms than a trivial matter like this.
 
ubiquitous said:
None. Nor should there be. Nobody is at a loss in this situation. The Law Society have far bigger issues to deal with in relation to protection of clients money held by their member firms than a trivial matter like this.
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WHy not?

If I had not caught his first mistake I would have lost money due to his incompetency.

He had use of my money for over 2 years due to his incompetency.

Two serious mistakes that luckily had no major consequences if every 2nd time he makes mistakes how long before something worse happens. I did not get value for money or a proffessional service which means he breached his agreement yet still got paid a full wage. I have been wronged and he should have consequence to prevent it happening again. As buying a house is one of the most stressful times in a persons life this is not a trivial matter.
 
"
A. Inadequate Professional Services

This is defined in Section 8 of the 1994 Solicitors (Amendment) Act as services which are inadequate in any material respect and are not of a quality that could reasonably be expected of a solicitor or a firm of solicitors.
The Society cannot investigate complaints under this heading which relate to services provided by a solicitor more than five years ago."



[broken link removed]



Looks like I have a point



I asked you why not and your reply suggests I am right was there some other point you wanted to make? It seems to counter your other point.
 
FillSpectre said:
...Looks like I have a point
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As I suggest, you will find out quickly if this is indeed the case, if or when you ring the Law Society and ask them.

FillSpectre said:
I asked you why not and your reply suggests I am right .
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Does it? If my reply did suggest this, then this was not my intention.

FillSpectre said:
was there some other point you wanted to make? .
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No, actually, except that you are more likely to get a definitive answer to your queries by ringing the Law Society instead of continuing to tell me how badly you have been wronged.
 
You haven't said any reason why you think I have nothing to complain about. What is the point where you think the law society should take complaints against solictiors. If he over charged me is that one? Hetook $550 more from me than need be enouhg to make me think I was also over charged.

Maybe instead of a make smart petty remarks you should see when somebody is trying to learn and understand something not be riddiculed . Can you understand that such unproffesional behaviour on the transaction of your home is quite upsetting and not worth riddiculing
 
FillSpectre said:
You haven't said any reason why you think I have nothing to complain about.
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Excuse me, but I did say
Nobody is at a loss in this situation".
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FillSpectre said:
What is the point where you think the law society should take complaints against solictiors.
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It matters zero what I think they should do. The Law Society handle complaints against solicitors on the basis of the existing policies and procedures that they have in place for this purpose.

Based on my own very limited knowledge of how the Law Society operates, (I'm not a solicitor), I personally think that you have no case to pursue unless you can show that you are at a significant financial loss arising from your solicitor's mistakes. However as I say, that is only my own opinion, and my opinion matters for zero in this scenario. That is why I suggest you call the Law Society.

Perhaps some of the solicitors who contribute to this board might like to clarify the likely approach of the Law Society to this complaint?

ps I don't know where you got the idea that I was trying to be smart or petty or indeed that I was trying to ridicule you?
 
ubiquitous said:
ps I don't know where you got the idea that I was trying to be smart or petty or indeed that I was trying to ridicule you?
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ubiquitous said:
None. Nor should there be. Nobody is at a loss in this situation. The Law Society have far bigger issues to deal with in relation to protection of clients money held by their member firms than a trivial matter like this.
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You belittled my situation "Nor should there be"
You say i have no loss "Nobody is at a loss in this situation"
You suggest the law society are not there to make sure the public get a professional service "The Law Society have far bigger issues to deal"
Belittle my points again" trivial matter like this"

THis is why I think you riddculed and made slight of my questions !I THink this is a petty thing to do.
Using your logic unless a solicitor actually losses money or steals money they can do what they like. If you know the legal system are you actually telling me unless you loose money a lawyer has no need to be proffessional?
 
Hi Fillspectre

If I had not caught his first mistake I would have lost money due to his incompetency.

IMO this is not really a cause for complaining to the Law Society. He made a mistake, rectified it, and picked up the bill for rectifying it. Of course, it would have been better if the mistake were not made in the first instance, but given a mistake was made, I think he took all the correct action to fix it, including ensuring you were at no financial loss.

Two serious mistakes that luckily had no major consequences if every 2nd time he makes mistakes how long before something worse happens.

In the second 'mistake' (my inverted commas), my view would be that he made an over-provision, which he promptly returned to you. You are acknowledging that there was no major consequencey, as corrective action was taken. Suggesting 'what ifs' is IMO a little speculative.

It seems to me that your grievance is with the customer service aspect of your dealings rather than any outstanding or unresolved material grievance, so I am not sure what you might expect the Law Society to do. However you clearly feel strongly about it, so I would suggest you write to the solicitor and cc your letter to the Law Society.

By the way, I am not a solicitor nor have any dealings in that area, but I used to work in customer service (completely different industry) and I feel that if the solicitor took corrective steps and fixed the mistakes, you need to be clear in any complaint to the Law Society of what else or what more you expected to be done.
 
Fillspectre, sorry I mis-read your post first time: the house purchase was 2-3 years ago, but the €550 was just returned last week? In that case, my reference to 'prompt' was incorrect. Apologies for that. Ceepee.
 
Ceepee said:
Fillspectre, sorry I mis-read your post first time: the house purchase was 2-3 years ago, but the €550 was just returned last week? In that case, my reference to 'prompt' was incorrect. Apologies for that. Ceepee.
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My point is that he didn't catch the first mistake I did, I contacted the bank and they said they knew nothing about the sale. Not one thing. I had already paid a bill for fees that included sorting this out. Is that false billing? The bank kindly agreed not to charge otherwise he was not willing to pay (his words). His compensation was na "new" charge for a letter not inculded on our bill in the first place. A ficticious bill so we were happy is how I took it.

After 2 plus years we get a cheque back for €550 with little or no explaination other than this was the remainder on our account after registration.

My issue with this is mostly that this indicates that he is unable to do the job and I know feel I should hire another person to investigate the sale of the house. For all I know the solicitor is and alcoholic because considering his manners and consistancy it matches what I know.
 
To set your mind at rest, ask him to give you an up to day copy of the folio and file plan of the property - this should show you and your wife registered as owner and your Mortgage registered as a burden against the property.

You should also ask him to provide you with written confirmation from the bank that he has sent your title deeds back to the bank.

You should also ask him to explain the refund - looks to me like an oversight. Before going to the Law Society etc you'd be best advised to speak to the solicitor first and try and sort it out amongst yourselves.
 
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