Laser Card Fraud - We've just been scammed

M

maryt

Registered User
Messages
21
We took an order over the phone for an engine (we're in the car business).

The 'customer!' paid with a laser card. The payment went through and we got the courier to deliver it. The 'customer' rang to say it was the wrong one, so we said no problem - we'll deliver up the correct one, just send the other back with the courier. When we got the first engine back (all very well packaged!!) opened it to find an old tv inside.

Got a call from the Gardai a few hours later to say the laser card that had been used was stolen and we have to refund the money back. We're now down to the tune of E1300. Can anyone tell us 1) as a business is there any protection for us taking laser/credit card payments over the phone 2) is there any way that we can precheck before we send an item that the card belongs to that person/isn't stolen?
 
WOW... thats a "nice one" MaryT... what a dirty trick ... I am no expert here but..

- where did the courier deliver the engine too ?
- were was the laser card stolen from?
- what did the gardai say when you explained your situation regarding the engine ?
- what car was the engine for ?

not sure if you can pre-check a laser card, not unless when you get the number is it possible to call the bank and provide them with the number and see if it was reported stolen.

The other thing is when was the card reported stolen, was the bank slow to react in cancelling the card ? they might be liable...
 
Interesting. AFAIK, unlike a credit card a Laser Card is the equivalent of cash and I know it is considered dangerous to have/use as you are not protected by any of the rules governing Credit Cards. Look at it this way, if someone stole 1,300 cash and bought an engine from you would the guards be able to request you refund the cash, especially if you did not get the engine back. I doubt it.
 
Towger said:
... Look at it this way, if someone stole 1,300 cash and bought an engine from you would the guards be able to request you refund the cash, especially if you did not get the engine back. I doubt it.
Click to expand...

Cash belongs in a special category, and you are not obliged to refund stolen cash that you accepted in good faith in a transaction. A Laser card or similar instrument is not in that category.
 
In reply to vacumn box. The 'customer' gave us an address in Dublin (we didn't check it out but it seemed genuine!) - Autopoint, Unit 1, Red Cow Industrial Centre. And this is where we made our first mistake. The 'customer' (I'd like to call him something else but decency prevails!!) rang my husband asking for the couriers tel. no. He would meet him along the road to save him coming in to Dublin. Foolishly he was given the number so the courier never went to the actual address - and this is what happened on the second occasion as well. (We later discovered that Unit 1 is a computer company and not Autopoint). It was the Gardai from Trim that rang so I presume that the card was stolen from that area. I think it was only reported stolen a couple of days before. They also told us that there have been quite a lot of engine fraud going on around there. The engine was for a golf.
 
if the card was reported stolen a few days earlier, why didn't the bank cancel the card ?.... that seem's a little odd.... I would be checking with the bank on this.
Lets say the card was reported stolen on monday, and on the thursday it was used to purchase goods, then you would imagine that its the banks fault and return any money themselves that would have been spent on the stolen card after the card was reported stolen..
 
I don't think we're covered by any insurances but I will check this out. I was just talking to AIB merchant services. The safest thing that we can do is to ring their authorisation centre and ask for a code 10 if we're suspicious of any customer paying by laser/credit card. Otherwise they said if we take an order and payment over the phone and the customer is not present and the card turns out to be stolen the onus is on us. It's a sore lesson to learn.
 
maryt said:
I don't think we're covered by any insurances but I will check this out. I was just talking to AIB merchant services. The safest thing that we can do is to ring their authorisation centre and ask for a code 10 if we're suspicious of any customer paying by laser/credit card. Otherwise they said if we take an order and payment over the phone and the customer is not present and the card turns out to be stolen the onus is on us. It's a sore lesson to learn.
Click to expand...

You should push back on the bank and ask them if the person whose card was stolen was anyway liable. Normal T&Cs for Laser state that if a person is negligent and allows their card to be stolen through their own carelessness, the bank is not liable, the card-holder is. If that was the case, why should you be asked to pay up?.
 
If the cardholder does not cancel their card within a reasonable time they can be found liable. Or say if they rang the bank and were advised to cancel the card be it Visa/Laser and then they don't do so they haven't a leg to stand on if the card is used.
 
From [broken link removed]
''Q: If my card is stolen, am I liable for the purchases made on it by the thief?
A:
The 'Code of Best Practice of the European Banking Debit Payments Industry on Card-Based Payments' states that the maximum a cardholder can be held liable, for transactions on a lost/stolen card that they have reported, is €150. In reality, the actual amount payable by the cardholder will depend on the bank and the circumstances of the situation. If a card is lost or stolen but the cardholder does not report it, then the cardholder may be liable to pay a greater amount.''

It certainly looks as if the cardholder had not reported it stolen before the transaction – if they had you would not have got payment authorisation, so you should contact a senior member of your bank’s staff, & point this out to them.
 
Is the courier not at fault here for not delivering to the address given?
You gave the courier a delivery address, he did not deliver there...
 
TwoWheels said:
Is the courier not at fault here for not delivering to the address given?
You gave the courier a delivery address, he did not deliver there...
Click to expand...

Did the person not phone the OP and ask for the couriers phone number and told her that they wouldn't meet at the address but on the road, that's not the couriers fault.
 
No, I don't think we can blame the courier. In fairness it was my husband's fault for giving the 'customer' the courier's tel. no. when asked. We don't blame the courier. In fact, he became suspicious when meeting this customer/fella the second time and took his registration. But the Gardai said that more than likely the white transit van used was stolen or the number plates changed on it.

But I have also heard that even when a customer gives an address they can be there waiting for the courier, sign for the item, off they go and that they have no affilation with that address whatsoever.
 
Let's say that they had come into your garage.

They would have produced the laser card and you would have asked them to enter their pin. Presumably this would have been guaranteed and the bank could not go back on it.

By doing it remotely, you are not really verifying anything.

I hadn't realised that a merchant could put through a laser card transaction without a pin. Does that mean that if I go into a shop and say that I have forgotten my pin, and they trust me, I can use my card?

Brendan
 
I hadn't realised that a merchant could put through a laser card transaction without a pin. Does that mean that if I go into a shop and say that I have forgotten my pin, and they trust me, I can use my card?
Click to expand...

Of course they can - otherwise Laser would be (more) useless for telephone and online transactions.

As for the shop accepting it without a pin, yes they could - but if the transaction is subsequently claimed as fraud, then the store is responsible.

In the OP's case, this is the case. Fraud is a huge problem for merchants who are processing card not present transactions. This is exactly the kind of stuff that can happen, and you end up being responsible for it alas.
 
Brendan said:
... I hadn't realised that a merchant could put through a laser card transaction without a pin. Does that mean that if I go into a shop and say that I have forgotten my pin, and they trust me, I can use my card?
Click to expand...

I don't know about forgetting your PIN, but sometimes when there is a glitch in the system the transaction is processed with the cardholder's signature.
 
I would not be refunding anyone until directed to do so by the merchant services of the bank concerned. The cardholder has questions to answer as to why the did not report the theft sooner.
 
Well the OP states that the Gardai informed her that the card had been stolen. They could have been lying to her of course, but I can see no reason why they would.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top