Landlord wondering whether to sell or rent it out below market value

DannyBoyD said:
leaving tenant no. 3 in sole occupancy, paying 1/3 of the achievable rent and successfully objecting to any attempt to allow the property owner to either let the other two rooms or pay the full rent.
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How did he successfully object out of curiosity?
 
Dr Strangelove said:
How did he successfully object out of curiosity?
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I found the property registered in RTB at a rent that looked to be about 1/3 of what I thought it should be; from that & the back story I was given I deduced that tenant no.3 had been successful in bringing a case. I didn't delve any deeper.

I've bought problematic properties before & successfully refurbed/ relet them. But the purchase price has to reflect the extra costs involved & as there wasn't a deal to be done on this one, I moved on.
 
DannyBoyD said:
Again, it needs to be stated that in a residential family type home, letting out on a room by room basis is very unlikely in my view to be accepted as a genuine license agreement.
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That's your view, I don't share it and student accommodation as proposed here is an example of where a license agreement can work well.

I do acknowledge that a landlord needs to enact a number of measures so they don't fall foul of ensure it is clear they are renting the entire property and dressing up a tenancy to avoid Part 4 entitlements.
 
DannyBoyD said:
Student specific accommodation is a different beast & requires RTB approval of your submission documents.
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Nothing to do with the topic at hand, we're talking a regular house not something purpose built.
 
Ah leo you're twisting yourself in knots here.
Leo said:
student accommodation as proposed here is an example of where a license agreement can work well
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A 2 bed flat in D4 is not purpose built student accommodation.

Its unlikely in my view that the OP will succeed in getting it registered as student accommodation with the RTB and having the students living there classed as licensees.
 
DannyBoyD said:
Its unlikely in my view that the OP will succeed in getting it registered as student accommodation with the RTB and having the students living there classed as licensees.
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I can only assume you're trolling now, it's some leap to interpret students renting rooms as implying that could only mean student-specific accommodation. Have you even read the OP's contributions, doing so (impossible by the way) would directly go against what they are looking to achieve.

It may surprise you to learn that many students rent houses or rooms in regular houses that were not purpose built as student accommodation. An owner of a regular dwelling house is perfectly entitled to rent that on a room by room basis to students under a license agreement, provided they avoid the traps of tenancy.
 
You are going round in circles.

Leo said:
It may surprise you to learn that many students rent houses or rooms in regular houses that were not purpose built as student accommodation.
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Don't patronise.
Leo said:
An owner of a regular dwelling house is perfectly entitled to rent that on a room by room basis to students under a license agreement, provided they avoid the traps of tenancy.
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Show me how this would be registered with the RTB and I'll believe you.
 
DannyBoyD said:
Don't patronise.
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So why suggest the registration of a standard house as purpose built student accommodation?

DannyBoyD said:
Show me how this would be registered with the RTB and I'll believe you.
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This is getting a little tedious, but I'll point you again towards the RTB guidance that clearly states accommodation let under license is not subject to registration.
 
Leo said:
RTB guidance that clearly states accommodation let under license is not subject to registration.
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direct quote from RTB website

Licences   ​

Typically most licence arrangements do not come under the remit of the RTB. Please note that because a licence is named as such, it does not necessarily mean it is not operating as a tenancy for the purposes of the RTB. 

Examples of a licence are a person staying in hotel, hostel or guesthouse or a person sharing a house with the owner.
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URL: https://www.rtb.ie/registration-and-compliance/beginning-a-tenancy/types-of-tenancies-and-agreements
 
DannyBoyD said:
Its unlikely in my view that the OP will succeed in getting it registered as student accommodation
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Explain how anyone would get such a property registered as student accommodation?

It was you who introduces the topic of student specific accommodation in this thread.
 
DannyBoyD said:
Typically most licence arrangements do not come under the remit of the RTB. Please note that because a licence is named as such, it does not necessarily mean it is not operating as a tenancy for the purposes of the RTB.
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Exactly as I have said, thanks. You can read some of the RTB cases where landlords have fallen into that trap to understand the measures to be take to avoid it.
 
Leo said:
... student accommodation as proposed here is an example of where a license agreement can work well
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really, Leo?

and again I will ask

Leo said:
An owner of a regular dwelling house is perfectly entitled to rent that on a room by room basis to students under a license agreement, provided they avoid the traps of tenancy.
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Show me how this would be registered with the RTB and I'll believe you.
 
DannyBoyD said:
Show me how this would be registered with the RTB and I'll believe you.
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Think about that for a second.... The RTB state license arrangements are not subject to registration. why would they then publish a registration form for something that is not subject to registration? They only publish registration forms for accommodation that requires registration. They don't publish forms to register the other forms of accommodation they state as out of scope either.
 
Thats exactly my point.

You can't just rent out a room in your non-PPR, call them a licensee & therefore conclude you don't have to register with RTB.

Keeping a room for your own use (again non-ppr) is unlikely in my view to get you out of registration requirements.

I believe any such person paying rent will succeed in being recognised as a tenant, (with all the rights accruing to that status) if they bring a case to RTB.

Also to note (and I'm aware @T McGibney disagrees, however this is the clear advice I get); if you are claiming mortgage interest relief, revenue will check for an RTB registration
 
Revenue can check for an RTB registration all they like, but have no authority whatsoever to deny mortgage interest deduction unless the Residential Tenancies Act is being breached by illegal non-compliance with RTB registration obligations.

If there is no RTB registration obligation, there is clearly no basis on which to deny mortgage interest deduction, and any such denial on that basis would be unlawful.
 
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