Landlord faces court action over covid parties

PaddyBloggit

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Apparently it's been going on for years:

A local resident said => over the years Mr O'Reilly's house was the worst on the avenue for parties, with the last couple of months being particularly bad.
 

L_earner

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Both adults have a responsibility here - including how the landlord as an adult utilises a business asset in what is a monetary relationship.
Agreed. Every landlord that fails to deal with incidents that upset neighbours gives us all a bad name.
 

L_earner

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How can he deal with it?
First prevention; vetting potential tenants by whatever means, but at the very least speaking with their previous landlords / ladies.
If that fails, confronting tenants about their behaviour. A lot of people genuinely don't see their behaviour as being a problem, and will cop on when approached.
If that does not work, build up a rapport with neighbours, showing that you are reasonable and not happy about any nuisance caused by your tenants. This will protect your reputation, so that the neighbours don't see you as being the problem. Their goodwill is not to be taken for granted. Try to extend that rapport to your tenant, so that the neighbours can maybe resolve issues with them face to face, rather than escalating it by going through you.
If all the above fails, and the incidents are constant, and disruptive to the lives of local residents, this must be seen as potential grounds for eviction. Get the PRTB involved, and be armed with a written record of all the things you have tried.
If and when you get rid of the tenants, do facilitate a repeat of the grief in another tenancy somewhere else. If another landlord asks for a reference, be honest without defaming them.
 

AlbacoreA

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The majority of what you posted is invalidated if tenants simply lie and fake all this stuff. You can fake references and all of it. Because there is no official central register.

You can't evict them during covid. In normally times it will take a year or two to get them out legally. By which time students will likely have moved on. It's almost impossible to recover costs and damaged from tenants, and it would cost more than you'd recover.

This LL obviously doesn't care anyway. But even if they did there isn't a lot they can do about it.
 

L_earner

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The majority of what you posted is invalidated if tenants simply lie and fake all this stuff. You can fake references and all of it. Because there is no official central register.
I agree with you to an extent, that is if the landlord is naïve enough to accept everything at face value. However it does not take genius detective skills to unravel a fake story. I have a short list of questions that I ask the prospective tenant, so I have a few details that I can check against the story that the previous landlord gives me. I do the same with the previous landlord, speaking with them on the phone rather than relying on emails. A house or apartment is a huge investment and demands that you take great care when choosing to whom you let it. I think that on average, problems in lettings arise in proportion to the degree that landlords fail to follow due diligence.
 

AlbacoreA

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A phone call and a few questions is no security and is hardly due diligence. They can fake that all sorts of ways. Have a mate or accomplice working somewhere.

You'd be surprised at how elaborate scams can be. Scammers are well used to manipulating genuine people to use as references.


At the end of the day what guarantee are these references anyway. They aren't legally liable if someone causes trouble.

In this particular case it's likely to be first year students. First time most have been let off the parental lease and first time in trouble. Its likely renting to students is the core market for rentals in this area.
 

Seagull

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The one thing missing from that article is whether there was any attempt to contact the landlord about the behaviour of his tenants. If he ignored complaints, then he deserves any fines he gets. If he can show evidence that he acted in response to complaints, and issued warnings to the tenants, he doesn't deserve penalties. It's a tough one right now for landlords. Ordinarily, they would be able to end a tenancy for continued anti-social behaviour by the tenants.
 

PaddyBloggit

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The one thing missing from that article is whether there was any attempt to contact the landlord about the behaviour of his tenants. If he ignored complaints, then he deserves any fines he gets.
From the Irish Times:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/judge-gives-landlord-a-week-to-halt-covid-19-parties-near-ucc-1.4301668

".... However, any time she or her daughter contacted Mr O’Reilly asking him to curtail the late night parties, they got no satisfaction."

From The Irish Examiner:


Residents’ spokesperson, Catherine Clancy, a former Lord Mayor of Cork, said their patience has run out: “This was the fourth in that property since May 25. On another occasion, we counted up to 100 people coming out of a party in another one of his properties. We have contacted him on numerous occasions but nothing has changed. We've spoken to him, we’ve had meetings with him, we have tried everything — but despite all that, and the joint letter last week from the HSE, Cork City Council and the gardaí to landlords, we have another Covid-19 house party and rubbish building up.”
 

SANTA10

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This mans houses are in a student area and possibly could be let to first years so hard to get references. I see it every year, students view the houses with their Mammies and Daddies and swear blind they wont have parties or leave the place in a mess. It's almost impossible to evict people these days. The landlord said himself he spent 18 months trying to evict a guy with a drug problem. The PRTB are always on the side of the tenant and never the landlord.
 

Seagull

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Landlords also need to play the PRB game. If they receive a complaint about anti-social behaviour by a tenant, follow it up. If the complaint is valid, issue a warning to the tenant, and lodge some kind of reference with PRB that this was done. That way, if it gets to court like this has, then they at least have a paper trail that they have tried to take action.
 

odyssey06

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Are these Adults not responsible for their own antisocial behaviour , Are they up in court.
Where is Tenant's personal responsibility in all this. Ridiculous. Asking adults to "control" other adults.
In the eyes of Irish courts no.
The landlord is up in court because of our pathetic laws about anti social behaviour re: house parties - everything is a civil matter, meaning expensive for peope to obtain relief.
At the moment it's easier for the impacted residents to raise this via the landlord.
In other jurisdictions the police would have closed down these parties long ago.
If, as a consequences of the coronavirus, some real powers were given to Gardai to deal with thse party houses it would be some small positive legacy.
 
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Leper

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1. (a) Odyssey06 hit the nail on the head; the Gardaí are almost powerless in such situations.
(b) Example of What Happened in a Spain some years ago:- During a school tour a group of Irish secondary students behaved anti-socially in a hotel room which impacted on the public passing by in the street. The students heeded no warnings from the hotel staff and kept the bedroom-door locked. The police were called and despite several warnings the door was kept locked. The police broke down the door and arrested the students. The subsequent return to Ireland by the students was pretty embarrassing for them and their families. I presume moms and dads paid handsomely for the damage in Spain.
2. The situation in Cork is ongoing for years and the residents were at the end of their tether. I can't remember any year in the past ten that the residents of that area were not complaining. If you think they are a shower of moaners etc you're wrong. They have been very patient for years and cases such as this were destined to end up in court. My sympathies are with the residents of the area. The landlord was living elsewhere. Like Odyssey06 I believe the Gardaí should be empowered to prevent such anti social behaviour.
 
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