Kittys on the Road

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I have five cats, all strays that we took in.They are all spayed/neutered. Before dark each evening we round them up and put them in the sheds. They are all glad to get in and get fed and have a bed for the night. This keeps them off the road and out of danger and also allows the birds to feed early morning. We let them out when we get up. We live in the country so they can roam around the fields during the day, but they do also go on the road, a side road with not much traffic, but at least it is daylight and they can be seen.

You cannot stop a cat from roaming as it's in their nature and you cannot keep a cat in as that's cruel. The only other alternative is what someone else suggested and that is to build a "run" in the garden which would suit one or two cats. I have noticed that each cat likes his and her own space ( just like ourselves) The only other thing is if you are near a main road is not to have any pets at all. It is kinder in the long run.
 
I promised myself I wouldn't reply to this thread anymore, having decided to 'live and let live' (even if that means by ignorance letting our cats die).

Swallows please do a little reading of the links below, and maybe you will realise your 'keeping cats indoors is cruel' comment is ignorant of modern veterinary and animal welfare thinking.

The attitude of Irish people that they somehow know what's best for animals because of folk-myths, tradition, and benign ignorance is not good enough any more. If you own ANY PET you owe it to your pet to research the species and their needs thoroughly, not simply rely on the typical Irish ignorance of 'well, everyone knows its cruel to keep a cat indoors'...

American National Wildlife Federation:
[broken link removed]

Humane Society of the United States
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Stanford University
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American Cat Fancier's Association
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American Humane Society
[broken link removed]

Similarly, more and more vets and animal shelters here are advising that you keep cats indoors permanently. Extensive research has proven it is NOT cruel, harmful, 'unnatural' etc.
 
I strongly object to my neighbour’s cats coming into my garden and crapping in my children’s sand box and the flowerbeds. I don’t care how they do it but if they choose to have cats they should find a way to keep them under control.
While I would not do so myself I see no problem with people trapping them if they come onto their property.
In the pigeon keeping fraternity it is common to kill any cats that go near the coop.
I don’t have a problem with this either, in the same way that a farmer is within his rights to shoot your dog if it is threatening his sheep.

If you want to keep semi-wild animals that’s your own business but do bear in mind that they are the number one killer of small birds and squirrels in this country (saw that on TV, can’t offer link). You have a civic duty to control their murderous ways!

(Just in case it didn’t come across above; I don’t like cats…)
 
Purple, You should talk to your neighbours about the cat problem. I was listening to Mooney goes Wild and appearently, if we did not have magpies and cats the country would be overrun with robins and rats! I love squirrels and wouldn't like to see them suffer, but I have never seen so many as this year - so they are certainly not endangered or anything.
I have also never seen a death reported on the road as a direct result of a cat.
 
I like cats but I do think they should be fitted with little bells to stop them killing birds.
 
We should probably fit bells to the workers in poultry and meat factories to give the chickens and beef a chance. Or maybe the fisherman should wear a high-vis vest. Or maybe every driver should have a alarm so that all the animals have good notice that it's on the way. Or maybe we shouldn't fly anywhere in case we hurt a birdie. :)

For goodness sake, animals (including us) kill animals. C'est la vie. Death is a fact of life for us all, maybe it's less cruel for an animal to be killed at the hand of another either a cat by a driver or a bird by a cat than for us to prolong lives with molly coddlying and the "help" of modern science only to have to turn around resort to euthanasia in the end in many cases.

Sorry, rant over :)
Rebecca
 
The problem with domestic cats is that there can be a lot of them in a single area and they can decimate the wild bird population in no time even when they hunt and kill based on instinct and not for food. There is nothing whacky or molly coddling in wanting to protect the wild bird population from such unnecessary predation.
 
But Clubman, where is the proof that cats are so detrimental to wild bird species in built-up areas? Would the lack of these kind of birds not be down to the lack of suitable habitats for birds with the decimation of natural hedgerows as more and more land is cleared for housing and the replacement planting is often not suitable and/or native? Street lighting also affects where birds choose to nest as does the availability of suitable food.

Bells around a cat's neck drives it nuts and I reckon it's cruel. I also doubt the effectiveness of that kind of measure because a cat will wait and strike so quick the bird would hear him rustle/move as quickly as he would hear any bell.

I'm not saying cats are anything special. They have their plus and minus points as do any other pet. But people's dislike and distrust of them is often unfounded and not based on anything other than a personal preference.

Rebecca
 
MissRibena:
Ok, death is a fact of life for us all. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to stop or limit deaths that are imho disadvantageous to society (namely the death of wild birds). Air travel has many advantages to society that make risking the deaths of birds ok. A cat without a bell is of benefit only to its owners. We can easily breed as many chickens and cows as we want. That is not the case with wild birds.
I'm sure noone is arguing that the lack of hedgerows etc mightn't contribute to lessening bird numbers. But just because there might be other things that are contributing doesn't mean it's ok for cats to contribute.
 
MissRibena said:
But Clubman, where is the proof that cats are so detrimental to wild bird species in built-up areas?
If you want authoritative statistics/proof then I'm sure that you can fine some via Google etc. but for what it's worth here is one relevant quote on the matter from Bjorn Lomberg, of The Skeptical Environmentalist fame (or infamy?) on the issue:
It is estimated that the Exxon Valdez oil spill cost the lives of 300 seals; 2,800 sea otters; 250,000 sea birds; 250 eagles and possible 22 killer whales. While this is naturally an awful toll, we also need to put this death into perspective - the total 250,000 dead birds from the disaster is still less than the number of birds which die on a single day in the US, colliding with plate glass, or the number of birds that are killed by domestic cats in Britain in two days.
 
Yes but isn't the quantity of birds relevant only when taking the total population of that breed of birds into account.

Cats kill birds, I accept that no problem. I've checked google and for every page I found saying cats were damaging to wild life, I could find another saying that they weren't; that they were not a problem or rodent focused etc. None of the web pages looked that authoritative enought to quote here to be honest. So I remain unconvinced that they are a "danger to wildlife". Certainly my cat brings way more rodents to the doorstep than birds (like one bird to every twenty small rat/big mouse and/or pigmy shrew), so maybe one bird a year. Nobody is getting too worked up about the rodent situation here. My mother's cat brought home a hare not so long ago but that is very rare too and he ate that pretty much whole, so by the hunting for fun/food debate he should be in the clear. Obviously my cats are not representative of the whole cat population of the world, but it is as good as a lot of the googled pages I read. If I didn't have a cat, I would more than likely have a rodent problem where I live in the countryside and given the close proximity of grain stores at the next door farm. So what then traps or poison?

Even on the pages that are more pro-bird than cat, they don't recommend use of a bell, just in case anyone reading this is feeling conscience-bound to inhibit their cat's hunting instinct, since the sound of a bell is not something that would naturally alarm a bird. These pages recommend keeping your cat inside. So we're back to square one then, if you believe them.

It appears to me, that people simply prefer some animals to others and are happier to restrict the activities of certain animals (e.g. mice, cats) to promote that of (e.g. birds). I don't buy into that. I believe that they are all equal and that a balance can be struck. For example, I feed the birds in my garden and make sure to do it in such a way as to keep them clear of the cats. I do what another poster recommends and wait til well after the dawn-chorus and after the blackbirds and thrushes have got their worms before I let the cats out after the night inside. Cats are by nature nocturnal so even by keeping them in at night you are constricting them a little.

I actually tried keeping my cat in all the time for selfish reasons (I didn't want him to get killed/lost etc) but changed my mind for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I didn't think it was right doing it for myself, secondly the kitty litter factor. Mined clay (the most common and cheapest) kitty litter is dangerous to a small cat, it is also a major contributer to landfill as it is not biodegradable (in less than 200 years or something). Wood-based kitty litters are not nearly as effective, are much harder found (where I live) and are over twice as expensive but are biodegradable (if you can put them in your garden, cos I don't think you should put cat poo in your compost). I came to the conclusion that on balance it was better for the cat, the environment and me for the cat to go outside during the day and inside at night.


Rebecca
 
MissRibena:
You mention that your cat kills more rodents than birds. But then you negate any point you might have made by stating that you're living in an area with a rodent problem -maybe it's just easier for your cat to kill the rodents rather than birds 'cos there's so many rodents around. I don't think this would be the case in urban areas. Cats would still be a plauge to birds in urban areas.
 
Cats will never be responsible for the demise of robins or rats and mice for that matter. Just look at the breeding rates for rats : Life span: 9-18 months, Sexual maturity: 2-3 months, Litter Size: 8-10, producing 7 litters per yr. Mice: Life Span: 9-12 months, Sexual maturity: 6 weeks, litter size: 5-6 producing up to 8 litters per year. I;ll let you work out the maths. Here's what the British Ornithology Society have say about the robin population and birds: 'Birds are also taken in large numbers by cats and Graham Appletom from the British Trust for Ornithology explains how recoveries of ringed birds can give us an idea of how significant cats are as controllers of bird numbers. For example, half of the ringed robins found dead in gardens are victims of cats, though this figure is biased by the fact that cats often bring their prey back home to their core territory where it can easily be found. Graham Appleton points out that although cats do kill large numbers of robins, the robin population in urban areas is increasing, so that the effects of cats are not necessarily limiting numbers'
Cats and birds have lived side by side for years and the laws of nature are so that neither are going to become extinct, through human use of cars or cats instinct to kill!
 
Aren't rats the scurge of towns and cities? On the rats/mice thread, most the contributers appear to be urban dwellers too. In my last house, I lived near a train track very close the town centre and apparently the area was "riddled" with rats, but you never saw one near my house :)

In fairness my cat would go after all sorts. I have seen him eat any amount of moths, spiders and beetles and I worry for him when wasps are around although we were ok this summer. Since he got his new playmate, he is far more likely to rough and tumble with him/her (it's still a matter for debate) than go after anything else.

Anyway, the moral of the story is that I reckon you lot are all cat-ist :) I am not even an innate cat-lover, but when I was camping one tiny kitten turned up and after a couple of days appeared to have no litter to belong to. So I felt so sorry for him I bought him home, eventhough I wasn't altogether keen on the cat idea. He found his way into my heart and when he went missing I was so upset that I went to the shelter to rescue another one and now here I am fighting their corner at every turn like an eejit :)

Rebecca
 
Aargh Ophelia!! The fundamental point remains that cats in urban areas are present in unnaturally high numbers! It is not a case of the age old hunter and hunted! Also, what of the rarer birds that are not as fast breeders as robins?

http://www.wildbirds.com/protect_cats.htm

[broken link removed] - in Britain, domestic cat density is 500 times that of the native Scottish wildcat.



Please actually read some of these links and at least try to contemplate a different viewpoint.
 
Sherman, What would you have us do about it?? Some of these are American statistics and American 'cranks'. Most responsible cat owners neuter and spay their cats nowadays so the cat population is being controlled.
 
Well, although I don't have Irish figures, knowing the general attitude to pets in Ireland I'd say the majority of domestic cats aren't in fact spayed.

That aside, in my experience any streets in Dublin I have lived on have at least one cat for every 4/5 houses. That is an unnatural level of density.

P.S. None of the sites I have linked to in this discussion are 'cranks' - they are all leading mainstream academic, governmental, or not-for-profit organisations.
 
Did I read somewhere that there are a million or more feral cats in the Dublin area alone? All caused by people years ago not neutering and letting the cats breed to this extent. Hire a trap from the vet and catch any you can and bring to be neutered and released or put down was the advise I got and it worked. All I can say in my own small area is that small birds - sparrows especially but also bluetits, chaffinchs,etc - have decreased hugely since we moved in about 10 years ago. However there are virtually no cats around but the population of crows and magpies is greatly increased and I wonder do these not frighten away the smaller birds? I have seen the magpies chase my dogs in the garden away from their water bowls! Would they not chase small birds away from nesting or feeding?
 
Sherman, you are making a lot of assumptions here about "Irish ignorance about

cats". Do you not realise that one can live here and not be Irish? and all of

these "experts " let them stay indoors permanantly and see how they like it. No

animal should be caged. They should be allowed to roam freely ( within reason )

ie. dogs should be kept on a lead in a public place. Common sense should

prevail. Let animals be animals, and not what we want them to be.
 
Sherman, Keeping cats in cages/runs in their gardens is hardly letting them enjoy the great outdoors! All sorts of problems would arise: cat obesity (not a pretty sight), depression and behavourial disorders. Cats do strange things in response to ill-treatment or lonliness, from digging holes to tail-chasing.
 
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