Kicked out of Gloria Jeans

C

Casual

Guest
Hi, My wife and I went into Gloria Jeans in Cork on Saturday. We had a pram but are concious of not causing obstructions, so we carefully parked it at a table well away from causing one. I can honestly say that we took up no extra space than if we didn't have a pram at all.

But then a member of staff came to us to tell us that it was manager's policy that there were to be no prams in the shop and we had to leave. This was very upsetting especially for my wife, and she felt very discriminated against.

We did not kick up a fuss, as the staff member was only the foot soldier, but I want to know if they can actually legally do this, and is there somewhere I can find out what I can do about it.

Would appreciate any comments.

Regards

Coffee Lover
 
I'm not aware of any statutory obligation on retailers/shops to allow people to bring prams/buggies into the premises. I can see how such a blanket ban (no pun intended!) might be perceived as discriminatory. I can also imagine situations in which it might be permitted to explicitly ban them (e.g. if they were to cause a fire/safety hazard - not saying that this applied in your case). If you feel strongly about this then you might want to contact the [broken link removed] and/or the Equality Commission for information on your statutory rights.
 
I'm not aware of any statutory obligation on retailers/shops to allow people to bring prams/buggies into the premises. I can see how such a blanket ban (no pun intended!) might be perceived as discriminatory.
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Surely they would have to display a sign along the lines of "No Prams" in order to enforce this?

Sounds very discriminatory to me.

The coffee is overpriced in Gloria Jeans anyway, IMHO. :)
 
But then a member of staff came to us to tell us that it was manager's policy that there were to be no prams in the shop and we had to leave.

You should have said no and asked for a menu. If he was insistent I would've asked him to send the manager over and start talking loudly about being kicked out for having a pram and insulted in this manner.

Then I would've shaken up the baby (just) a little and got him ready to puke all over the manager :)
 
its fairly tight in Gloria Jeans going in the door. when its busy as it generally is, then maybe the pram was causing an obstruction, or in the opinion of the staff, cause a greater obstruction when the place got busier?
 
A wheelchair would cause the same kind of obstruction. Is it OK to throw them out too?

I'd be on the phone today to the branch manager and hopefully to the country or franchise manager. Search on the web for Gloria Jean franchise stuff and send off a few emails indicating your interest in setting up a franchise, and you'll have the email address of the country manager in no time.
 
A wheelchair would cause the same kind of obstruction. Is it OK to throw them out too?

That's an interesting point. It seems that children and babies are being discriminated against. I've seen shops with a 'no push chairs/prams' sign out the front. This is for insurance reasons. How about 'no black people' or 'no women' signs for prejudice reasons?...
 
I still think it makes sense to apprise yourself of the statutory rights and obligations in this context first before going all gung-ho at the retailer in question. Maybe they were within their rights to refuse prams/buggies on the premises? I can't find anything that looks authoritative but I have found a few links that suggest that there is no statutory obligation on retailers to allow them on the premises if they see fit. [broken link removed] is sort of ironic given the prominent NO BUGGIES IF POSSIBLE PLEASE at the bottom!

In relation to the original query, and again playing devil's advocate to some extent, were you actually asked to leave or did they simply ask you to move the pram/buggy off the premises giving you the option of putting it outdoors (not always practical or prudent I know) and remaining on the premises for your snack?

How about 'no black people' or 'no women' signs for prejudice reasons?..

There is a women's clothes shop in Blessington Street, Dublin 7 which specialises in communion/confirmation/bridal gear and which always displayed a "Strictly No Men" sign prominently in the door window. I think that they were eventually forced to take it down but I must check next time I'm up that way. I have a feeling that they may have changed it to a more diplomatic/polite request for men to remain off the premises. :)
 
There is a women's clothes shop in Blessington Street, Dublin 7 which specialises in communion/confirmation/bridal gear and which always displayed a "Strictly No Men" sign prominently in the door window.

Well that's a disgrace! - they are also discriminating against transvestites.
 
:rollin ...this does beg the question AP but how did you possibly think of that ;)
 
This was discussed on this site before in relation to Brats vegetarian restaurant in Tralee. Funnily enough cant find the link (EZborad me arze)

But consider this: lunchtime in a busy town, lunch customers mad hungry and gagging for food...mothers of Seven meeting in progress one cup of cold coffee each, buggies and prams abounding no room to move customers doing about turns and going off to Subway....

Whilst I fully understand your annoyance and as a parent myself would be boiling mad but one has to take a balanced view of these matters. Hardly a watertight argument and legally pretty soft ground but someone needs to take a contrary view
 
If I were you I would write to the manager/owner (and copy up the Gloria Jean line if necessary) and ask if they have a formal policy of not allowing buggies in.

They may well have such a policy.

z
 
.....or else just don't go to Gloria Jean's ever again and get on with your life?
 
Hi Coffee Lover,

Thanks for sharing your experience with GJ's here. Whilst I agree with oysermans main point (never darken their door again), I disagree with his insinuation that you need a life.

I reckon posing here on AAM took all of 2-3 minutes out of your life and you have helped convince me and several other posters never to visit GJ's ever.

Keep up the good work.
ajapale
 
I like to go into cafe's which would not have screaming kids in it and would use this cafe for that purpose. I'm not saying all kids scream and indeed I'm sure most can even sleep thru' the experience, however kids cry now and then and I feel any business should have to right to allow or disallow children on the basis that some people choose not to have them and want some peace and quiet. This is not an attack on families, I just feel that businesses should have the right to choose which way they want to run theirs. My advice to the original poster would be to not return as there are plenty more cafes that would like your business.
 
A cafe is a public place Elcato. It's not a library. That's a pretty strange view to take and regardless of whether any cafe owner actually feels the same way they'd never admit that in public. Never mind that parents and children make up a large proportion of cafe's custom anyway.

Perhaps cafe owners should reserve the right to not admit immigrants based on the fact that they only want Irish people as customers?

Noisy children and prams are two different things. Common sense is a far better solution in virtually all of these instances.
If a child is screaming its guts out then perhaps a queit word in the mothers ear might work, or a sign up asking parents to keep their children under control might suffice.
If someone is blocking access with a buggy or pram then offer to move them somewhere queiter. In the vast majority of cases people will do what they can to accomodate cafe/shop owners if they're nice about it.
 
This is not an attack on families, I just feel that businesses should have the right to choose which way they want to run theirs
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I agree to a certain extent. However, I would be mortified if, after sitting down/parking pram inside the cafe, I was then approached and asked to leave. If they don't want prams, fair enough, but make that plainly obvious from outside the cafe, and save everyone the embarrassment.
 
Screaming Kids

Piggy

" If a child is screaming its guts out then perhaps a quiet word in the mothers ear might work "

Piggy, your taking your life into your own hands. As a parent of three under the age of three, its hard enough for 'her indoors' to even get out for a coffee, but I can tell you one thing for certain, the quiet word in the ear approach during a kiddie tantrum might just get you a smack in the gob from my Mrs ! Do you not think we'd stop the kids crying if we could !
 
Re: Screaming Kids

Hi niallymac,

I'm speaking from experience. I'm well aware that *most* parents try to stop their children from screaming the house down whilst in a shop/pub/cafe etc but sometimes it's necessary to ask people to keep their children queit as they are upsetting other patrons. I've worked in retail where prams/buggies are welcome and this has always been the case. In saying that it's very, very rare that a child is so out of control that would warrant having a word.

My point is blanket bans are bad. Full stop. A common sense approach where you deal with people on an individual basis is by and large the best approach for ANY business which purports itself to be open to the public.
 
Re: Screaming Kids

A cafe is a public place Elcato. It's not a library.

I don't know about that. Last time I visited my local library the place was full of brats running around the place and making lots of noise...
 
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