Key Post: Domain Name nightmare warning

  • Thread starter XXXAnother PersonXXX
  • Start date
Re: Cyber squatting

Hi Clubman,

The problems seem to lie with more than one operator - I'll sum up three separate questions to illustrate:

1. Why are register.com's procedures so complicated, apparently self-contradictory, and apparently anti-competitive?

2. Why can't register.ie issue invoices by post and by email at least to their Irish customers) in advance of domains lapsing? - after all they are happy to issue invoices by post after domains have been renewed. If cost is the issue, would an
extra €1 or 50cent really be noticed in their charges?

(Remember, this was AP's problem - not mine)

3. Why has the ie. domain registry been so awkward and inefficient to deal with in recent years?

The common thread in 1 & 2 above is that domain companies have promoted themselves by trying to scare people about cybersquatting (Have you left it too late... etc) and from the above examples their er, rather unique, procedures seem to play into the hands of cybersquatters against the interests of their customers, thus perpetuating the problem.
 
Cyber squatting

"They haven't done anything illegal. All they've done is register a vacant domain name. BTW, they want $1900 ransom."

Actually, they probably have done something illegal. It depends of course on your domain name, but you may well have intellectual property rights in the name on which they are squatting. Their squatting may well constitute an infringment of those rights capable of being sued for in the ordinary courts. Problem is, the cost of mounting a legal action is thousands, and the financial risk - both to you and the squatter - is therefore an awful lot higher. The arbitration procedure is (relatively) cheap and quick. But you are entitled to bring a legal action, and if you win, you are entitled to recover your legal costs. So, if you are determined not to give these guys money, you can threaten to go the route of full legal proceedings, and it then becomes a question of who is going to blink first. Choice is yours.
 
Re: Cyber squatting

All,

Just a few notes on this discussion :

1) the entire domain registration lark has a *well-earned* reputation for being a money-making racket. This does not mean that every company involved in the market is a racketeer.
2) some companies make it *very* difficult to change your details precisely because they know many/most people will give up and either just pay them the money to make the change or else pay them the money to continue providing the service. I worked for a company who did a lot of registration and we found that changing details for .com domains was inredibly difficult.
3) wholesale .com rates are a fraction of the price that a retail customer pays. I can't remember the actual amount, but if someone registers 399 vacated domains at $5 a day and one of these pays the $1900 they are in the money. If two people pay the $1900 they are in even bigger money.
4) beware of sites that advertise domain registration for $10 or something low like that. You will find a number of things - it will cost you (a lot) to change anything, and it will be a right royal pain to change anything. When you decide to move your website/email/etc . . . to some local provider you will end up either frustrated or (relatively) poor.
5) there is software/service out there that provides daily lists of domains which expire. People do use these lists to spot and poach potentially lucrative domain names.
6) as above, many non-technical people may try to find the easiest way to perform some action and then end up snookered at a later date by the compromise they made earlier. I'm not saying that people bring this hassle and cost on themselves, but I am saying that it is a function of people not reading and understanding the fine print (like charges) before clicking on the big bright button that says "Register now" In many cases the fine print may not even be there and this is definitely a case of dodgy dealing, but in many cases it is there and people just don't read it.
7) the domain resolution process is there to provide some recourse for people with a grievance. I'm not sure where people got the idea that it was supposed to be a value for money proposition. The same applies to bringing a case where someone has crashed into your car and the insurance company aren't interested because there are no witnesses or whatever. You are free to bring a case, but it might cost you EUR5,000 in legal fees to prove that some dude caused EUR1,500 worth of damage to your car. It's your choice to take the case or not.

I do sympathise with people who find themselves in this position. There is no easy way out and due to the global nature of the internet and domain registrations there is also no *easy* legal way to pursue problems for the ordinary punter.

z
 
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Good summary Zag.

I'd like to add to point 7.
The 'Ransom' is generally marginally cheaper than the arbitration costs. Does this make the arbitration thing a small bit farcical?, at least for small companies or people who can't afford to hand over $$$$ for something they previously got for $35.
 
Re: .

Thanks Zag for adding some much needed clarity and commonsense into the debate.

I know that it would be wrong if all complaints such as AP's were accepted unquestioningly but unfortunately the "devils advocate" stuff sometimes goes too far on AAM. People just won't bother alerting fellow users to problems like this if they have to undergo a virtual cross-examination every time, being accused of carelessness and the like. Sadly we're becoming more like Morning Ireland every day...
 
Re: .

Speaking of domain registration, where is the cheapest place for registering .ie domains?
 
Re: .

Tommy - your didactism doesn't alter the fact that some of the contributors to this topic were careless in providing inadequate contact details to the company through which they registered their domains. If I open a bank account but only provide them with the address of the holiday home in the Cayman Islands that I only visit every six months and then find myself overdrawn because they didn't send my statements to my house in Dublin then surely I am the one at fault! :rolleyes
 
Re: .

Agreed, but that doesn't mean that we have to castigate them for making a simple and common mistake. Another Person freely admitted to making an error of being careless and pointed out to the rest of us the dangers of so doing. There was no need for anyone to "rub it in" as was done.

Incidentally AP did not grumble about the fact that his domain was de-registered but rather that cybersquatters had attempted to extort money from him.

I followed AP's comment by recounting my own unhappy experiences with domain registrars and again found myself put "in the dock" by people who didn't know any of the facts of my particular case.

I know from other discussions that AP (like myself) has a fairly thick skin and can take most criticism without getting worried about it but I really wonder how many AAM newcomers are put off from posting because of our all-too-regular collective tendency to rush to judgement?

Didactism or otherwise, I think this is a point we should remember.
 
Re: .

After trying some attempts to register .ie, no matter what website I go to, they still ask for company name, Registered Business Name Certificate, etc. So how can a squatter operate with such stringent restictions?
Are there sites that don't require these details for registration of .ie domains?
 
Re: .

The stringent (some say over-zealous) governance of .ie domains by IEDR means that cybersquatting is not an issue with .ie domains. A far more liberal regime applies to .com and .net domains, where cybersquatting is a serious problem.
 
Re: .

Oh - I meant didactisicm by the way, but my pedantry let me down for once. :lol
 
For once?

Oh - I meant didactisicm by the way, but my pedantry let me down for once


And again,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I'd check my spelling if I were you :lol

I agree though with the statement! Who was it that mentioned the thorn in the eye?
 
Re: .

AP - it doesn' really make it a farce. It is out of the hands of the arbitration people. No matter what fee they set, the squatters will always set their price marginally below that. This way, people will be faced with a choice of going to arbitration and risking losing or else paying less than the arbitration amount and being guaranteed to win.

I agree that it is a valuable service to bring this issue to light and I sympathise with your position. Bringing it to light will hopefully save someone in a similar position some money next time their renewal comes up.

z
 
Re: Where the Hell is My Website?

A practical guide to making sure you keep hold of your domain

Points (1) and (2) ... ?

Make sure you are listed as the Administrative and Technical contact ...

Make sure those contacts are correct...

:lol
 
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Clubman - many domain registration companies still 'own' the domain you have 'registered'. You are in effect renting the domain from them. This is especially true if the registration cost seems a bit low.

When you want them to do any admin stuff, you'll get a hefty charge.
 
Re: Where the Hell is My Website?

Dougal - thanks for that link. It sets out pretty clearly why the whole business is ripe for shady dealers and why people who think they own or control their domain find out the hard way when they lose their domain without so much as a warning email.

Essential reading for anyone who relies on their domain for contact or sales.

By the way, it should be pointed out that the Irish system is slightly different and slightly less prone to abuse. You only ever 'rent' your .ie domain from the .ie people. You do this through a registrar in a similar fashion to that described in the articles. However, in the .com and .uk system you can (in theory if you get it all right and do what it says in the articles like ensuring you are the techincal and administrative contacts and have enough technical knowledge) own your domain. The problem arises when people think they own their domain only to find out that they never owned it and were only paying a registrar to manage it for them.

z

p.s. for reference the term domain refers to the .ie .com .uk .nz type of entity. Everything else is a subdomain - askaboutmoney.com is a subdomain of .com - remember this and you remember that someone other than you controls a level above your subdomain and you always have to convince them to allow any changes to happen. If you are the relevant contact for your subdomain then you should have no problem authorising the changes. If your registrar or hosting company is the contact then you have to go through (and pay) them to make changes.
 
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