Kevin Myers...yesterdays Times Article

S

sadmak

Guest
It is obvious that Mr Myers wanted to provoke a reaction by his controversial views on single parents and their families, or as he so eloquently put it the "mothers of bastards", in our society.
His timing was impeccable considering that yesterdays paper had a supplement of great interest to school kids and was distributed to many of the country's schools.

In the past lone parents were stigmatised - Myers obviously wants to perpetuate the stigma and he even goes on to compare "illigitimate" children to warped wood unsuitable for constructing straight masts, blah blah blah.

If his point is to raise concern about the amount of State assistance that these families get then he has failed utterly - he should have vented his anger agoinst the social welfare system instead of innocent school kids.
It sounds like the sh** is going to hit the fan today - he and the Irish times Editor deserve everything that comes their way.
 
Isnt it a sad indication of our times that when a respected journo writes this column the only thing that gets picked up is the use of the b word

personally i come from a family of 7 kids my parents worked their whole lives to push us through college when the government gave them no help, my dad was taxed to the hilt

we have put these poor unfortunate people on the dole and single parents payments into a corner.......

discuss
 
Eamonn Dunphy on Newstalk had a really excellent discussion on this topic this morning with Fintan O'Toole and John Waters. I think the show is repeated at night.
ajapale
 
Dunphy's show is repeated tonight starting at 22:00. Vincent Browne was seething about it last night on RTE.

Nogser
 
Three cheers for Kevin Myers - Great to hear a journalist getting off the fence and stating what most of us privately think. The single mothers would say it is their life and therefore their choice. But that's just the point - it's not their choice unless:

1)They are prepared to financially support themselves with no more state intervention than a nuclear family would get.

2)If, as statistically proven to be likely, their offspring ends up on the wrong side of the law or socially/economically deprived, they will pick up the full cost of this with no state intervention.


Political correctness can not do down the basic tenet:

Children need fathers.

GG
 
Geegee - I have no problem with Kevin Myers calling a spade a spade in cases where single mothers deliberately milk the system for everything they can get. I don't resent them for doing it so as itis the system that is at fault.

I do resent this pompous twit using an extremly derogative term to describe innocent children who have not chosen to be brought up without a father.
I think they deserve the same chance as every other kid in their classroom!

Ps I also don't think its a hanging offence for either him or his editor but a public apology should be made in tomorrow's paper.
 
The reality is that for a real single parent the allowances they get from the state does not cover the costs in time or money.
The reality is that only 2.5% of single mothers are teenage girls. 15% of all lone parents are men.
In my experience (and I have some indirect experience in this area) the majority of those who claim lone parents allowance are not loan parents. All it takes is for the fathers name not to be put on the birth cert. Then the mother rents a house, the father moves in and the state pays. There are no single mothers in this situation, there are parents who are engaged in fraud.
Mr DeRossa of the Labour party made a very good point on the radio a few months back. He pointed out that we always look for a group to blame in any society. they used to be unmarried mothers, then there was the travelers and now it's emigrants. I generally like Kevin Myres though I seldom agree with him more than 50% but I think that this article was fascist.
 
I disagree with Colonel Myers on 99% of his views, however in this case am with him. Sick of all the PC crap that politicians & journos come out with. Just look at the state of the country, the whole social fabric of society is collapsing around us and the government and dogooders are to blame. A serious review of the whole social welfare system needs to be undertaken fast.
 
Kevin Myers

Absolutely it's about time someone stood up against the marauding hordes of politically correct do-gooders and commie liberals!

This tide of political correctness must be stopped before the entire fabric of our society is threatened by these single mothers! Now if they'd just let me out of this straight-jacket I'd go in to the cell next door to shake Kevin Myers by the hand.
 
Political correctness stifles debate. If Mr Myers believed what he wrote then he shouldn't have apologised to anyone.

A couple who live together and are on welfare get less child dependent allowance than if they live apart. If a parent is living with a child and is receiving rent supplement and the other parent moves in they will often lose the rent supplement. This (state) discourages the creation of a two-parent family unit.

The government seem to go out of their way to make thing tough for families and in particular single income families.
 
Kevin Myers

"If Mr Myers believed what he wrote he shouldn't apologise to anyone?"

So on that basis, would you be happy if a major national newspaper decided to run a weekly column written by a Neo-Nazi, for example? They might incite race hatred, but hey that's alright, once they genuinely believe what they write, according to your logic!
 
Re: Kevin Myers

Indeed.

Were, as per your example, a major national newspaper to run a weekly column by a Neo-Nazi intending to incite race hatred then that would be subject to incitement to hatred laws wouldn't it? as always enforcement is a matter for the Guards and interpretation a matter for the courts :)

What I said was . .
1. PC stifles debate
2. IMHO Mr Myres should not have apologised
3. Government policy is anti-family

. . now back in your box.
 
Re: Kevin Myers

I believe at least one senator did call the gardai to ask them to investigate Kevin Myers under incitement to hate laws.
 
Re: Kevin Myers

Michaelm - yes or no
If you were the parent of a child born outside of marriage and Myers labelled your son or daughter a bastard. Would you seek an apology then?
 
Re: Kevin Myers

sadmak: It may be a dated term but the definition of a bastard is 'A child born out of wedlock'. And no, I would not seek an apology.
 
Re: Kevin Myers

In August 2001, The Irish Times website ireland.com hosted an online poll and discussion forum on the refusal of the Australian government to admit a boatload of Afghan refugees who had fled their country in fear of the Taliban. I read the forum at the time and came across a few posts that appalled me - including at least one that advocated that they should be murdered eg "make them walk the plank...". I emailed an ireland.com editor and put it to him that this sort of stuff shouldn't be published by any reputable media outlet. Having assumed that the offending material found its way onto the site due to an editorial slipup, I was amazed when the guy replied with an argument defending their right to publish it. In subsequent days, I checked and rechecked the page, and no effort was made to delete or amend these comments.

If any tabloid had tolerated the publication of these comments on their own website, the Irish Times would have been quick to denounce them. If the Times' editorial policy was/is so weak to allow this sort of trash to be published by members of the public it is unsurprising that good journalists like Kevin Myers (for whom I have tremendous respect) occasionally fall into the same trap.
 
Re: Kevin Myers

Michaelm - I know its a dated term and if the comments were made in the 19th century then i don't think anyone would have raised an eyebrow.
But this is the 21st century where the term has lost its literal meaning and is now derogatory.
I cringe at the thought of career baby machines with 5 kids wth 5 different fathers etc milking the system.
But i don't blame the 5 kids and i wouldn't go round calling them bastards.
But if you want to condone that - then thats your business.
 
Re: Kevin Myers

I don't mind being offended. Getting offended from time to time is reasonably healthy. It forces us to defend positions that we may have become complacent about, and often while we disagree with how a point is made, we discover in arguing about it that we agree with the point being made.

I do mind being treated like an idiot.

If Mr Myers expected to be able to use the word Bastard, and Mother of Bastard repeatedly and gratuitously in his column and then hide behind the excuse that he was simply using "Proper English" then that's treating the public like idiots.

It reminds me of Deputy De Rossa apologising to the dail in Irish so that noone would understand what he said.

If I were to talk over and over about Mr Myers being Gay. And mention that I'd seen him socialising with lots of other Gay People, and that I'd seen him going into a Bar usually frequented by Gay people. And if I published this in the Irish Times. I doubt that Mr Myers would accept my excuse that of course I meant he and his friends were Happy, Jovial etc, and I was using Gay in it's original context.

He's not a stupid man, his goal was to cause controversy, I suspect sales of the Irish Times were higher than usual today for the apology. I didn't buy it, but I'm sure many did.

I happen to agree that some of our Social welfare structures mitigate against two parent families living together, and others mitigate against getting off the dole and into work.

But I don't have to set out to hurt people to make my point.
I have a large enough vocabulary that I don't have to keep using words that have long since had their meaning overridden with more offensive common use.

Clearly Mr Myers education didn't serve him as well as my Vocational School days served me. Perhaps someone should sent him some dictionary toilet paper. Or perhaps they could just send him some copies of the Irish Times.

This reflects badly on Kevin Myers, but it reflects far more badly on the Irish Times. I would stoutly defend their right to publish this column. But I also stoutly defend our right to have far less respect for the paper as a result.

I haven't read the apololgy because the Irish times saw fit to hide it behind the need to register on their website or buy their rag. Neither of which I have any motivation to do today.
Particularly given that the apology will do nothing to restore the esteem that I once held the paper in.

Incidently Dictionary.com contains 6 definitions of Bastard, 4 of which are offensive if directed at a person, particularly a child.

1. A child born out of wedlock.

2. Something that is of irregular, inferior, or dubious origin.

3. A person, especially one who is held to be mean or disagreeable.

adj.
4. Born of unwed parents; illegitimate.

5. Not genuine; spurious: a bastard style of architecture.

6. Resembling a known kind or species but not truly such.

I think the above makes Mr Myers a Bastard Journalist does it not?

-Rd
 
Re: Kevin Myers

'sfunny - I was walking past the Irish Times office this evening when I started thinking how certain individuals would react if instead of asking directly for him on the phone, or in person, or addressing letters to him people instead made it their business to ask for 'that oul bastard' and if queried made the point that they were just making use of the vernacular and meant no harm by it.

I wonder how acceptable it would be ? Sure isn't the vernacular a valid form to use in conversation - just as 'proper English' is a valid form to use in print ?



z
 
Re: Kevin Myers

Please don't give the Colonel the attention he so desperately craves - just ignore him & he will go away and we can have a sensible debate on this important topic.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top